SB 10.63.6: Lord Rudra, accompanied by his son Kartikeya and the Pramathas, came riding on Nandi, his bull carrier, to fight Balarama and Krishna on Bana's behalf.

SB 10.63.7: A most astonishing, tumultuous and hair-raising battle then commenced, with Lord Krishna matched against Lord Sankara, and Pradyumna against Kartikeya.

SB 10.63.10-11: With sharp-pointed arrows discharged from His bow Sarnga, Lord Krishna drove away the various followers of Lord Siva -- Bhutas, Pramathas, Guhyakas, Dakinis, Yatudhanas, Vetalas, Vinayakas, Pretas, Matas, Pisacas, Kushmandas and Brahma-rakshasas.

SB 10.63.12: Lord Siva, wielder of the trident, shot various weapons at Lord Krishna, wielder of Sarnga. But Lord Krishna was not in the least perplexed: He neutralized all these weapons with appropriate counterweapons.

SB 10.63.13: Lord Krishna counteracted a brahmastra with another brahmastra, a wind weapon with a mountain weapon, a fire weapon with a rain weapon, and Lord Siva's personal pasupatastra weapon with His own personal weapon, the narayanastra.

SB 10.63.14: After bewildering Lord Siva by making him yawn with a yawning weapon, Lord Krishna proceeded to strike down Banasura's army with His sword, club and arrows.o

SB 10.63.22: After Lord Siva's followers had been driven away, the Siva-jvara, who had three heads and three feet, pressed forward to attack Lord Krishna. As the Siva-jvara approached, he seemed to burn everything in the ten directions.

SB 10.63.23: Seeing this personified weapon approach, Lord Narayana then released His own personified fever weapon, the Vishnu-jvara. The Siva-jvara and Vishnu-jvara thus battled each other.

SB 10.63.24: The Siva-jvara, overwhelmed by the strength of the Vishnu-jvara, cried out in pain. But finding no refuge, the frightened Siva-jvara approached Lord Krishna, the master of the senses, hoping to attain His shelter. Thus with joined palms he began to praise the Lord.

SB 10.63.25: The Siva-jvara said: I bow down to You of unlimited potencies, the Supreme Lord, the Supersoul of all beings. You possess pure and complete consciousness and are the cause of cosmic creation, maintenance and dissolution. Perfectly peaceful, You are the Absolute Truth to whom the Vedas indirectly refer.

SB 10.63.26: Time; fate; karma; the jiva and his propensities; the subtle material elements; the material body; the life air; false ego; the various senses; and the totality of these as reflected in the living being's subtle body -- all this constitutes your material illusory energy, maya, an endless cycle like that of seed and plant. I take shelter of You, the negation of this maya.

SB 10.63.27: With various intentions, You perform pastimes to maintain the demigods, the saintly persons and the codes of religion for this world. By these pastimes You also kill those who stray from the right path and live by violence. Indeed, your present incarnation is meant to relieve the earth's burden.

SB 10.63.28: I am tortured by the fierce power of Your terrible fever weapon, which is cold yet burning. All embodied souls must suffer as long as they remain bound to material ambitions and thus averse to serving Your feet.

SB 10.63.29: The Supreme Lord said: O three-headed one, I am pleased with you. May your fear of My fever weapon be dispelled, and may whoever remembers our conversation here have no reason to fear you.

SB 10.63.30: Thus addressed, the Mahesvara-jvara bowed down to the infallible Lord and went away. But Banasura then appeared, riding forth on his chariot to fight Lord Krishna.

SB 10.63.33: Lord Siva felt compassion for his devotee Banasura, whose arms were being cut off, and thus he approached Lord Cakrayudha [Krishna] and spoke to Him as follows.

SB 10.63.34: Sri Rudra said: You alone are the Absolute Truth, the supreme light, the mystery hidden within the verbal manifestation of the Absolute. Those whose hearts are spotless can see You, for You are uncontaminated, like the sky.

SB 10.63.35-36: The sky is Your navel, fire Your face, water Your semen, and heaven Your head. The cardinal directions are Your sense of hearing, herbal plants the hairs on Your body, and water-bearing clouds the hair on Your head. The earth is Your foot, the moon Your mind, and the sun Your vision, while I am Your ego. The ocean is Your abdomen, Indra Your arm, Lord Brahma Your intelligence, the progenitor of mankind Your genitals, and religion Your heart. You are indeed the original purusha, creator of the worlds.

SB 10.63.37: Your current descent into the material realm, O Lord of unrestricted power, is meant for upholding the principles of justice and benefiting the entire universe. We demigods, each depending on Your grace and authority, develop the seven planetary systems.

SB 10.63.38: You are the original person, one without a second, transcendental and self-manifesting. Uncaused, you are the cause of all, and You are the ultimate controller. You are nonetheless perceived in terms of the transformations of matter effected by Your illusory energy -- transformations You sanction so that the various material qualities can fully manifest.

SB 10.63.39: O almighty one, just as the sun, though hidden by a cloud, illuminates the cloud and all other visible forms as well, so You, although hidden by the material qualities, remain self-luminous and thus reveal all those qualities, along with the living entities who possess them.

SB 10.63.40: Their intelligence bewildered by Your maya, fully attached to children, wife, home and so on, persons immersed in the ocean of material misery sometimes rise to the surface and sometimes sink down.

SB 10.63.41: One who has attained this human form of life as a gift from God, yet who fails to control his senses and honor Your feet, is surely to be pitied, for he is only cheating himself.

SB 10.63.42: That mortal who rejects You -- his true Self, dearmost friend, and Lord -- for the sake of sense objects, whose nature is just the opposite, refuses nectar and instead consumes poison.

SB 10.63.43: I, Lord Brahma, the other demigods and the pure-minded sages have all surrendered wholeheartedly unto You, our dearmost Self and Lord.

SB 10.63.44: Let us worship You, the Supreme Lord, to be freed from material life. You are the maintainer of the universe and the cause of its creation and demise. Equipoised and perfectly at peace, You are the true friend, Self and worshipable Lord. You are one without a second, the shelter of all the worlds and all souls.

SB 10.63.45: This Banasura is my dear and faithful follower, and I have awarded him freedom from fear. Therefore, my Lord, please grant him Your mercy, just as You showed mercy to Prahlada, the lord of the demons.

SB 10.63.46: The Supreme Lord said: My dear lord, for your pleasure We must certainly do what you have requested of Us. I fully agree with your conclusion.

SB 10.63.47: I will not kill this demonic son of Vairocani, for I gave Prahlada Maharaja the benediction that I would not kill any of his descendants.

SB 10.63.51: At the front of the party Lord Krishna then placed Aniruddha and His bride, both beautifully adorned with fine clothes and ornaments, and surrounded them with a full military division. Thus Lord Krishna took His leave of Lord Siva and departed.

SB 10.63.52: The Lord then entered His capital. The city was lavishly decorated with flags and victory arches, and its avenues and crossways were all sprinkled with water. As conchshells, anakas and dundubhi drums resounded, the Lord's relatives, the brahmanas and the general populace all came forward to greet Him respectfully.

SB 10.63.53: Whoever rises early in the morning and remembers Lord Krishna's victory in His battle with Lord Siva will never experience defeat .

Hmmm. Did your faith in Krishna just restored, Nitaicandra?
I see you collecting shastric support for Krishna's superiority (over Shiva).

SB 10.63.53: Whoever rises early in the morning and remembers Lord Krishna's victory in His battle with Lord Siva will never experience defeat

Dear Nitaichandra:
                        Are you aware of the historical rivalry between Vaishnavism and Shaivism ?

Are you also aware of the humiliation that Vishnu feels before Shiva, and how He admits His defeat and insignificance in Shaivic literature ?

... and could just as easily post similair 'stories' that would offend Vaishnava sensibilities ...

Or do you just not give a damn ?

Some days ago , another member responded in a very condescending way to a post of mine that was really quite neutral , and quite interfaith-oriented .
When I read his response , I couldn´t believe my eyes :
This living entity treated me like an inexperienced child that should not endulge in reading and quoting shastra without having some previous qualifications and without having accomplished some deeds ...
And actually , I like shastra ...

So this living entity wanted to forbid me to ever again research about the relationship between Shiva and Vishnu ...

So , I just stopped the conversation , but I decided to create topics showing the superiority of Vishnu over Shiva , just for the sake of it  ( even though I don´t care about this controversy , having lost my faith in vaishnavism )...

I would find this very interesting and refreshing to the mind , not having faith anymore in vaishnavism .

A Buddhist friend once told me that they consider 'Hare Krishnas' to be the Jehovah's Witnesses of the Yoga world

Chanahari  - am I the person you are referring to who was unpleasant ? - I certainly didn't intend to be.

Great! Violence and wisdom combined in a story. 

A Buddhist friend once told me that they consider 'Hare Krishnas' to be the Jehovah's Witnesses of the Yoga world.

gaudiya repercussions, where the battles are so bitter because the stakes are so pathetically small

No. We're all in maya so this is insignificant katha.  .... The rivalry between the gods is at least 1500 years old. It's kind of cute people, mostly westerners, still get into it

Surely the concept of Maya only appeals to ISKCON, and this concept is used to give people a sense of purpose and validity through false superiority?

It's also illusion to beleive a child is abused because of it's karma, a beleif that I cannot ever hold, and had to leave devotees suggeesting this before I smacked him one.

Personally I don't beleive in the concept of universal illusion. It's dangerous.

Please enjoy also the prayers of the poor humiliated Shiva , when he lowers his head before Krishna and admits his insignificance before him ...

Yes, its very important for the women to keep their heads covered.

yes, I did not mean for this statement to be taken seriously but to illustrate the points that you describe. I would however go at it from a different route and say this twisted concept of maya also arises from themes of guilt and sin perhaps rooted in Judeao-christian themes most western 'devotees' grew up in or were influenced by.

the meek shall inherit the earth... by his prayers alone, Shiva has displayed his supremacy

the above quote is of The above is a quote form Shri Nitaicandra from his post
Krishna defeats Shiva in battle

It is not my quote. I had just responded to this quote.

So what do you say girl? I'm game if you are.

Babu, as a mystic who spans time space and three-dimensional reality I am not surprised to see that you do not rebuke the truth that you are factually in all actuality a g rl . I think you should forget something as obvious as writing poetry railing against Bush and start protesting for the reclamation of yoni status as a liberation from the confines of female monopoly.

"If someone accepts a fallen conditioned soul as Vishnu, Bhagavan, or an incarnation, he commits a great offense." Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu continued, "To say nothing of ordinary living entities, even Lord Brahma and Lord Siva cannot be considered on the level of Vishnu or Narayana. If one considers them as such, he is immediately considered an offender and atheist. A person who considers demigods like Brahma and Siva to be on an equal level with Narayana is to be considered an offender, a pashandi" (CC Madhya 25.78-80).

So what do you really make of such comments. Creatively exegete them as exstatic glorifaction? Ignore them as anomalies that were added in later on but not the real words of Caitanya? Accept them and therefore consider anyone who worships any other divinity outside of Vaisnavist Hinduism an atheist offender? What else?

** In the Atharva Veda, the Supreme Person says:

itotham krta sannyaso'vatarisyami sa-guno nirvedo
niskamo bhu-girvanas tira-atho' lakanandayah kalau
catuh-sahasrabdhopari panca-sahasrabhyantare
gaura-varno dirghangah sarva-laksana-yukta isvara
prarthito nija-rasasvado bhakta-rupo misrakhyo
vidita-yogah syam

I will descend on the earth after the passage of four thousand years in the Kali-Age, [kalau chatuh sahasrabdhopari] and before the passage of five thousand years [pancha sahasra abhyantare].

I will come on the earth on the bank of the Ganges, [tira-sthah alakanandayah]. I will be a tall and saintly Brahmana devotee. I will have all the auspicious symptoms of an exalted person [dirghangah sarva-laksana-yuktah].

I will exhibit renunciation. I will have all auspicious signs. I will be a devotee, practicing bhakti yoga. I will taste the rasa of My own devotional service.

** In the Sama Veda, the Supreme Lord says:

tathaham krta sannyaso bhu-girvano 'vatarisye
tire'lakanandayah punah punah isvara-prarthitah sa-
parivaro niralambo nirdhuteh kali-kalmasa-kavalita-
janavalambanaya

I shall come to the earth, accompanied by My associates, in a place by the bank of the Ganges. I will advent to save the people who are afflicted and devoured by the sins of the age of Kali. I will manifest as an Avadhut Brahman Sannyasi.

** In the Adi-Puran and in the Narada Puran, the Supreme Person says: 

aham eva dvija-srestho
nityam pracchanna-vigrahah
bhagavad-bhakta-rupena
lokam raksami sarvada

I shall advent in the form of a Brahmana devotee [aham eva dvija-srestho] and I shall hide my factual identity [prachanna vigrahah]. I shall deliver all the worlds [lokam raksami sarvada].

** In the Upa-Puranas, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Sri Krishna speaks to Srila Vyasadeva:

aham eva kvacid brahman
sannyasa asramam asritah
hari bhaktim grahayami
kalau papa-hatan naran

O Brahmana, I occasionally take the Sannyas Asram [sannyasa asrama asritah] in an attempt to bring the fallen people of Kali Yuga to take up the path of Bhakti or devotional service to Lord Krishna [hari bhaktim grahayami].

** In the Garuda-Purana, the Supreme Lord says:

aham purno bhavisyami
yuga-sandhyau visesatah
mayapure navadvipe
bhavisyami sachi sutah

I will take birth as the son of Sachi [bhavisyami sachi sutah], in Navadvip-Mayapur [mayapure navadvipe]. I will come in my complete spiritual form in the first part of Kali-Yuga.

** In the Bhavisya-Purana, the Supreme Lord says:

anandasru-kala-roma
harsa-purnam tapo-dhana
sarve mama eva draksyanti
kalau sannyasa-rupinam

O austere sage, you should know that in the age of Kali, everyone will see my transcendental form as a sannyasi [kalau sannyasa rupinam]. I will be exhibiting symptoms of ecstasy like shedding tears of bliss and hairs standing in ecstasy [anandasru-kala-roma-harsa-purnam].

He also instructed one of his friends to commit suicide just because he talked to a woman. What a loving, compassionate God you have. Congratulations.

According to GV, God bangs his head and grinds his face bloody against a wall. Nice!

Didn't he also let a woman step on his shoulder and when the other men chastized her for stepping on the shoulder of a monk he was all like: You people be quiet! Let her step on my shoulder and don't you dare disturb her!



Just like my signature says! That is the strangest best part and you know it!

Always loving, forgiving, the most merciful....?