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Gaudiya Repercussions > How We Relate to Spirit > Eastern Traditions
evakurvan
Looking around for images I found this. I have no idea who wrote it, but it is one of the more enjoyably-worded understandings of the Siva-Kaali dance competition I have come across:

Kali's next important inroad into the mainstream was her sudden elevation into the role of being a wife of Shiva. It was, in a sense, inevitable. Both are wild outsider gods totally indecorous and oblivious to convention, living in inhospitable terrain and associating with all the freaks and oddballs in creation. The difference being that Shiva is presumed to be an ultra cultured and civilized person who chooses to live so out of caprice and a peculiar sense of humor, while Kali is essentially wild and untamable.

Unlike most other goddesses who were put firmly in place by being married off to supposedly superior male gods, Kali's marriage did nothing to tame her. This is exemplified in the many stories popular in South India as to how Shiva had a trying time with his turbulent wife and he usually chooses a dance competition to show her that he is the Great God and must be obeyed. Mortifyingly, the wild Kali has no problem matching anything that Shiva Nataraja, the Lord of the Dance, can come up with. Finally he dances in the Udharva Tandava posture, a movement that is indecorous in the extreme. Kali refuses to follow suit, because she is not deliberately shameless and he 'wins'. It has long been recognized as a hollow victory though there are some feeble attempts to interpret it as Kali finally learning modesty.
evakurvan
More from the same writer

Some of the assertions of Kali supremacy did not sit well with rival sects especially the Vaishnavas, and there were frequent skirmishes over turf. A typical example goes thus. The Vaishnavas declared that, "Krishna is the boat man who ferries the soul across the ocean of existence." The Kali worshippers, angered by this assumption of salvation, retorted. "Our Mother is the ruler of the universe and does not time for petty tasks like this, which is why she appointed that fellow Krishna to do the job!" Sometimes you can buy calendars with popular bazaar paintings on it that show Kali with an escort, a little Krishna running ahead of her like a herald and a tough looking Hanuman guarding the rear of her cavalcade. The implications are obvious.

hahaha
evakurvan
From the same writer

Another story represents Kali as being battle drunk as well as blood drunk. She killed and drank so much blood that she lost her balance and went on a demented dance of destruction across the universe. Shiva alone has the courage to approach her and he knows she will require a severe shock to snap her out of this madness. He throws himself on the ground in her path and she inadvertently steps on him. Even in her berserker state she realizes something unusual has happened, it is after all Shiva. Recognizing whom she had stepped on, she is mortified and bites her tongue in embarrassment. The dance stops immediately.

This rather naïve story casts Kali as an extremely simple soul who respects her great husband but that is only the obvious take on it. The symbolic element in it is very clear also. Even Kali the terrible can only deal with so much death and destruction before one goes mad. Wrath that has run out of control has long been recognized as a form of illness, if not downright madness, in India. Wrath is the absence of consciousness and the only person who can give you back that vital component of your psyche is Shiva - who is pure consciousness himself. In a real sense, every time you lose it because of rage, you are stomping all over Shiva. The shock of recognition implies that consciousness is again functioning and the passions recede to their proper position as servants not as masters.

The tongue is the prime symbol of passions as it is the center for taste, which is regarded as the core passion. Once you can control your craving, not for food as such but for rasa, flavor in all its connotations, you have won over your passions. Kali's biting of the tongue is the acknowledgement of such control over the passions, but it was possible only when an outburst of rage revealed how fragile and easily lost the conscious awareness of life is.

evakurvan
Idem.

With the Tantrik tradition gaining importance from the eighth century however, Kali achieved a tremendous growth spurt in importance. She was clearly designated as Prakriti, the active energizing principle of the universe, and Shiva was merely Purusha, the passive male component. So much so that there is a saying that, "Without Shakti (Kali) Shiva is merely a Shava (corpse)."

She was declared to be the supreme figure of godhood and all the other gods, including Shiva, were mere props to reflect her glory. This led to the classic Tantrik representation of a rampant fully armed Kali standing on the supine body of her husband. The symbolism behind that picture is far too elaborate to be dealt with in this article. Particularly the left-hand path of tantra, with its somewhat bizarre rituals, found Kali an ideal goddess. They even devised a form of worship (vira bhavana), which involved confronting the goddess in all her malevolence and refusing to be cowed down.
Aran
Evakurvan,
Have you confronted KALI, or is this all academic ?
evakurvan
The most I have confronted Kali is taking a walk on the wild side trying a new exotic vegetable from the local chinatown supermarket.
planetpriya
Kali
shivaslingam
QUOTE (evakurvan @ Aug 30 2005, 09:40 PM)
More from the same writer

Some of the assertions of Kali supremacy did not sit well with rival sects especially the Vaishnavas, and there were frequent skirmishes over turf. A typical example goes thus. The Vaishnavas declared that, "Krishna is the boat man who ferries the soul across the ocean of existence." The Kali worshippers, angered by this assumption of salvation, retorted. "Our Mother is the ruler of the universe and does not time for petty tasks like this, which is why she appointed that fellow Krishna to do the job!" Sometimes you can buy calendars with popular bazaar paintings on it that show Kali with an escort, a little Krishna running ahead of her like a herald and a tough looking Hanuman guarding the rear of her cavalcade. The implications are obvious.

hahaha
*


Any vaisnava who says that Kali (Durga) is not God is wrong.

From Jiva Goswami's commentary on verse 3 Brahma Samhita

QUOTE
Sometimes Goddess Durga is also described as the supreme controller. This is also correct because there is no difference between the potencies and Lord Krishna, the master of all potencies. This is confirmed by the following words of the Gautamiya Tantra:
 
"Krishna is Durga. Durga is Krishna. One who sees that they are different will not become liberated from the cycle of repeated birth and death."
 
Durga is the personal potency of Lord Krishna, and therefore she is Lord Krishna Himself. For this reason Durga should not be considered manifested from a portion of the Lord's illusory potency Maya. This fact is confirmed by the following stat ement of the Nirukti:
 
"Even is one continually worships her, Durga is still difficult to understand."
 
Durga is also described in Narada-pancaratra, in the following conversation of Sruti and Vidya:
 
"Durga is the supreme goddess. She is an incarnation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. She is the transcendental potency of the Lord. She is manifested from the form of Lord Maha-Vishnu.
 
"Simply by understanding her one immediately attains the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is not otherwise.
 
"She is identical with Gokula's queen Sri Radha, who possesses a great treasure of love for Krishna. By her grace the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the master of all living entities, is easily understood.
 
In the Sammohana Tantra, Durga herself declares:
 
"I am Durga. I possess all virtues. I am not different from Sri Radha, the eternal, supreme goddess of fortune."


In fact in a sense she is superior to Krishna. She is "identical" to Radha, who is "superior" to Krishna in a sense, even though they are one and the same person. Radha is considered superior because in the Caitanya Caritamrta she is said to experience millions of times more bliss then Krishna. And in Gaudiya teachings it is because of that which motivates Krishna to want to taste what she tastes. That is an allegorical tale meant to tell us that Radha is in fact superior to Krishna in the sense that Radha is the true enjoyer of the two, even though they are the same person. i.e the female form is superior to the male form in terms of enjoying potential. So Radha is "superior" to Krishna because she is female and therefore called the hladini or enjoying potency of Krishna. She is Krishna's enjoying aspect, therefore superior to Krishna, even though they are both the same person.

Here is another allegorical tale describing Krishna's real internal "higher" identity. From Raghava Goswami's Sri Krsna-bhakti-ratna-prakasa

QUOTE
That Sri Radha is manifested from half of Lord Krsna's body is also described in the Govinda-Vrndavana-sastra, where Sri Krsna says to Balarama:

"O Balarama, please listen and I will tell You something. One day, taking My flute, My heart full of bliss and My form bending in three places, I went under a kadamba tree and, seeing My own form reflected in a splendid golden platform studded with jewels, I became enchanted. At that moment My heart became filled with the sweet happiness known as conjugal love, which charms the entire world. My heart now desires to become a woman. I yearn to enjoy Myself as a woman.

As the Lord thought in this way, His heart approached itself. From the sweetness of His heart came bliss and from the bliss came Himself, manifested in a second form, a female form of transcendental bliss that could experience the direct perception of Himself.

At that time a goddess, whose form was nectar, whose fair complexion was like a host of lightning flashes, and who was decorated with glittering ornaments, appeared from the Lord's left side. She is known as Radha, who is half of Krsna's body, and who is the mistress of all potencies."


I've gotten a lot of flac from various self proclaimed "authorities" who tell me that Radha and Durga are not the same person as Krishna, they insist that Krishna is a separate person from them. Which is really not the message of the true Gaudiya school. I go over that misconception at The hidden face of God
planetpriya
Is God here ? balloons.gif
evakurvan
I think fighting over which God is higher is a fun passtime because it gives a good excuse to poetizize about the greatness of your god in glorifacation, and I think this is the essence behind such covertly playful, overtly serious polemics. I don't think the question of which God is objectively higher or lower, or which God is actually the same God as another God, is anything to earnestly think about, not because it is controversial, but because it is sort of an absurd thing to even think about, unless you see religion as a matter of classification or crossword puzzle.
Tapati
Astrology posts moved to astrology topic:

http://www.gaudiya-repercussions.com/index...t=80&#entry7000

Otherwise you'll never find them months from now when you're looking. smile.gif
Milla
Shri Krishna as Kali

O daughter of the snow-capped mountain! That Ananga whose bow is of flowers, whose bow string is of a row of bees, who has five arrows, who has as his feudatory Vasanta, and the Malaya breeze as his chariot, he, even though thus equipped, having obtained some grace from thy side glance, conquers all this world single-handed - Saundaryalahari, 6

In places in the tantrik tradition, the Krishna avatar of Vishnu is often identified with Kali. This reaches a peak in the Tantrarajatantra, where it is said that having already charmed the world of men as herself, Lalita took a male form as Krishna and then proceeded to enchant women. In this work, Krishna has six forms, identified with the six senses (including Mind). They are Kamaraja Gopala, Manmatha Gopala, Kandarpa Gopala, Makaraketana Gopala and Manobhava Gopala. According to the same work, they are described as being like dawn--Krishna with six arms holding flute, noose, goad, sugar cane bow, and a bowl of curds. (Lalita herself has five arrows, a bow, noose and goad in her four arms.) Here Krishna is identified with Kameshvara, the Indian god of love, who is otherwise called Ananga, and, like Cupid, is armed with a bow.


(from shiva shakti mandalam)
Milla
From the same place:

Lalita Tripurasundari, the Red Goddess

Dear One, Tripura is the ultimate, primordial Shakti, the light of manifestation. She, the pile of letters of the alphabet, gave birth to the three worlds. At dissolution, She is the abode of all tattvas, still remaining Herself -Vamakeshvaratantra

Lalita (Tripurasundari) has three aspects as virgin (Bala), mother (Tripurasundari) and crone (Tripura Bhairavi) and is the waxing Moon as Kali is the waning Moon. She represents love and sexuality while Kali represents death. She is bright, while Kali is dark. Lalita means She Who Plays. All creation, manifestation and dissolution is considered to be a play of Devi or the goddess. Mahatripurasundari is her name as transcendent beauty of the three cities, a description of the goddess as conqueror of the three cities of the demons, or as the triple city (Tripura), but really a metaphor for a human being.

Tripurasundari's gayatri:

Tripurasundari vidmahe
kameshvari dhimahi
tanno klinne pracodayat

"Let us contemplate Tripurasundari, let us think of Kameshvari, may that wetness direct."
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