Does spirituality always comes along with material pain? Many saints like Jeanne d'Arc had to bear so much misery, but still people till today dont feel like turning away, although Hollywood tried to adulterate the whole thing and made the actress look like rather insane than closely connected with the Lord.

http://spirituality.indiatimes.com/article.../1288586074.cms

"Only one who has studied can teach. Only one who has acquired can give.
Only one who is completely free from sorrow can free others from sorrow."

To attempt to sketch Satguru Sri Sri Mata Amritanandamayi's life is as tough as it is to fathom the depth of an ocean.

Amma's childhood name was Sudhamani and she was born in 1953 in a small sleepy fishing village in Quilon, a district in Kerala, India. When baby Sudhamani was born she was cross-legged, and had a beaming smile on her face, quite contrary to other children. The dark hue on her face was reminiscent of the colour of Lord Sri Krishna. All these signs of spirituality manifested and continued through her childhood. As a child Sudhamani was often found in deep meditation. By the tender age of five, she would compose songs hymns in praise of Lord Sri Krishna, full of poignant longings and laden with deep spiritual meanings. Her mellifluous voice began to have a soothing effect on the villagers.

But Sudhamani's life was soon to enter a phase full of difficulties. Despite being a brilliant student she was made to leave school, as her mother was not well. She quietly accepted the decision as God's will and bore the entire workload of the household on her slender shoulders with a smiling face. Her daily schedule consisting of fetching water and fodder for the cattle, cooking, cleaning etc.; duties that could tire many an adult. Yet, apart from looking after the large family, Sudhamani also found time to lend a sympathetic ear to the problems of the entire village. This convinced her of the ephemeral nature of all worldly relations. She realized that man's only friend, the One who would never forsake him, was God. After completing the household chores that would often take up to midnight, Sudhamani would spend her time in deep meditation on her favorite deity Krishna.

Signs of her compassion were visible from childhood, when she took things from her own house to help the needy. This did not go well with her family who could not understand the purity of her nature. She was punished mercilessly but neither the compassion nor her love for others diminished. By the time she entered her teens, Sudhamani spent several hours engrossed in deep prayer. This resulted in her getting visions of her deity in every aspect of creation. Soon she would have visions of the Divine Lord and would moan in deep love. This sublime state was beyond the comprehension of her family who cast her out in the open. She now spent her time on the seashore fully engrossed in her visions of the supreme force. The animals and birds in nature, naturally in tune with her state, met all her needs. During the last phase she was engulfed by a ball of light as the Divine Mother left her physical body. This made Sudhamani realize the eternal form of God and the deep vibrations of Aum began to vibrate from her.

Sudhamani was henceforth called Amma or Mother by one and all. Despite having attained the highest state, Amma took it upon herself to spread the message of spirituality among the masses. She began to give darshan to the countless people who flocked to her for cures for physical, material and spiritual problems. In an effort to spread her message, in 1987, Amma commenced her tours across India and the world. It is indeed a great blessing that a self-realized soul has condescended to uplift others and to help them transcend the gulf between the gross physical world and the sublime spiritual realm.

In a spiritual essence, she is indeed the embodied essence of the unmanifested Absolute; a phenomenon that happens only once in many years. Be it a motherly touch, or a subtle look, she exudes Compassion, as a sure way to realize the Divinity in us.

After years of hearing about Amma, my wife and I finally went to see what this hugging Divine Mother was all about. I have the full story as the latest entry to my blog on this site, but to cut the story short, with all my doubt and hesitations about living saints due to my ISKCON experiences, this lady packs a Shakti punch; there is something there worth experiencing at least once in your life.

She travels the world giving darshans filled with lectures and kirtans that ask for a lot of patience, but she is greatly known for ending the evening granting hugs to all who want one, even for as long as 12 hours straight, she sits there and hugs people into the wee hours of the morning.

She gives out mantras too and has followers who like to dress all in white and smile blissy smiles of love, but she also raises tons of money for building schools and hospitals in India and raised millions for the tsunami relief after the devastation that took place last Christmas in the areas of Indochina and India.

I walked into that Darshan hall a total skeptic but after my hug, I was at peace and felt really good about all things called life. I went back to being my crazed self the next day with out any problem, but that experience, when looked back upon, always brings a deep-seated smile. If you ever have the opportunity to go to one of Amma’s darshans, please consider it, bring your mindfulness character and any saved extra patience you have stashed away for you will be entering the distant cosmic dimension of Indian time, but by all means it grants the open mind a special present worth remembering for the rest of your life.

Well stated, Kali. Unfortunately, I had very little patience stashed away during my recent visit. I left before my early morning hug. At least I was in the same room with her. I definitely benefitted from just being there. I will see her next time she passes through.

I have never met Amma, but I have met a good number of people who met her and were excited about what she does and who she is. The same thing is true about Sai Baba, and others. So on the factual plane I can only accept as evident that something happens with people who meet Amma. Yet, what causes some after-thoughts, is the way it is explained, the theology that is put on this simple lady, the ideology that surrounds her activity.

I have also heard and read that she declines all of those attributes that are put on her, unlike Sai Baba who claims himself to be Krishna, Narayan, Shiva and all. Therefore what would be worthwhile to enquire about here is how the immediate following of this simple lady creates an atmosphere of divinity around her, how they create hagiography while she is alive, how legends are told about her birth, her childhood to whatever end.

Saints are created easily in India where no institution with sharp observation and instruction watches over processes of divinisation.

There is a class of saints in India that received and receives the acclamation of sainthood simply by being not like everyone else. Fakirs are considered saints, somone who does not eat is a saint, someone who puts on a saffron garb is a saint, anyone being different is easily a saint. The person who called himself later Sai Baba was someone who could produce vibhuti out of his hand. That is not an uncommon feature in India, if you accept as fact the process of reincarnation of people who had achieved certain powers in a previous life. When I lived in Tamil Nadu I have heard from reliable source of a boy in a village who did the same (apparently his ability was not marketed into a sainthood-drive so far).

The man to name himself after the great Sirdi Sai Baba later on, turned his craft into a religious movement, if we want to accept this term as it is used by sectarian groups themselves. And people believe what they are told. Spend money on it, hospitals and schools are being built, and the propaganda machinery churns up more and more stories and creates an aura of miraculousness.

I wonder what it would have been like if you were the first person to hug Amma, after you met her in her empty straw hut in Kerala, alone, without being told what you know now, without that atmosphere of expectation and doubt that accompanies such a visit today.

I have received this via PM and post this here.


Rahima's Story

(13-Dec-02)

Swept up by "Mother-Love"

In July1991 my friend took me to see the female Indian guru Ammachi (also known as Amma) in Chicago. The music was going real good and she was giving people hugs. Then I was in her arms and I didn't want to leave her. So I wrote and asked permission to live at her California ashram. I lived there on and off from January1992 to January 1995 when I left for good. In California the ashram is called M.A.Center; in India it is called M.A. Math.

Their motto seems to be "spirituality is big business". The organization is run with the idea of making money and towards this end individuals don't matter. As I look back, the free programs seem to be a way of getting people hooked emotionally so they will buy items from the bookstore, sign up for retreats and make donations. All of which is a prime source of income for Amma.

At the ashram life was tightly controlled. People had to work outside the ashram to pay rent. The morning program started at 5:30A.M (see daily schedule on bottom) attendance was mandatory. Then people would go to work. After dinner cleanup, there was an evening program. On their days off residents would work in the house, on the grounds or in the office. Much of the work involved sending out letters asking for donations. Every Saturday evening the ashram held a public program. Sometimes outside devotees would arrive early to help with the work. On Saturday the big job as I remember was to help prepare dinner which was served after the program for a cost of $5.00. Also it was important to set up the bookstore in an attractive way so people would buy things. These things in themselves are not bad. Many mainstream churches run bookstores and have fundraising dinners. It was only after I became aware of the organization's excessive fundraising focus that these thing began to bother me. When I lived at M.A. Center my main jobs were housework, sending letters out asking for donations and copying cassette tapes to be sold in the bookstore and on Ammachi's tours.

We ashram residents looked forward to Ammachi's U.S. tour. Because everyone wanted to go on the tour people worked for temporary agencies so they could stop working when Ammachi came to town. Therefore they had no job security and no health insurance. People willingly made that sacrifice. Residents had to make their own travel arrangements and accommodations for the cross-country tour. Of course they had to pay their own way. At one point the residents talked about renting a bus and traveling together but that never came about. The residents drove to the different cities, organizing and setting up the programs. They awoke early and went to bed late. It was a mad rush because we drove to the programs while Ammachi and her entourage flew.

Aside from the free programs offered, several cities held paid retreats; they were very popular. Of course room and board was included but basically the retreats were run the same way as the free programs. If the ashram residents wanted to attend a retreat (and if they did, they would spend most of their time there working) they had to pay for it just like everyone else. Although paying in full like everyone else, ashram members would end up working (selling books, incense, pictures of Amma etc) during most of the retreat.

In 1993 I spent some time at the ashram in India. When I was there room and board was $100.00 a month--very cheap by western standards. Later on I found out that most other ashrams charged $40-$50 a month. Food in India is cheap but at M.A. Math you couldn't get a decent meal. I'd only been there 2 months when I cut my foot and the cut wouldn't heal. I saw a doctor and he told me that this was because of a lack of protein in my diet. It was in India that I became aware of how financially exploitive the Ammachi organization is. By then I'd been involved with M.A.Center a year and a half.


Rules, Conduct, Behavior and Relationships

It was expected that everyone at the ashram would wear white--since that's what Ammachi wears. But it was only mandatory on tour and at the Saturday night programs. Women wore ankle length white skirts and white blouses or white saris. The men wore white shirts and white pants. White is the color of renunciation and we ashram residents had given up the world to seek God realization. Men and women were not supposed to mix unless there was ashram business to discuss.

There wasn't much friendship between the women either. One resident explained to me "we get our hugs from Ammachi'.
Everyone was always sad because they couldn't be with Ammachi. Sometimes the women were a little bit friendly but mostly we discussed ashram work or Ammachi. We all lived together yet we were isolated from each other. Ashram residents weren't very helpful toward one another. We weren't supposed to talk much. We were supposed to silently repeat our mantras while working. Mantra is a phrase that the spiritual teacher (guru) gives you upon initiation. Repeating it constantly is supposed to lead you to God realization.

There is a phrase "the guru is God". Ammachi was seen as all powerful; she knew what we were thinking and feeling; she knew our past and future. We worshipped her as an incarnation of the divine mother goddess. For us at the ashram our path to God realization was "karma yoga" (work) also called seva or selfless service to the guru. To work long and hard past the point of exhaustion was considered good. We could achieve God realization that way by overcoming our bodily limitations. I have since married and upon recently mentioning this to my husband he replied, "That's a good way to kill yourself."

Friendships with people outside the ashram were frowned upon. We looked down on the outsiders. We'd tell each other that we never wanted to live in the outside world. We worried over what we would do if Ammachi ever told any of us to marry, for it was unthinkable to go against her wishes; she knew what was best. We obeyed her without question, whether the advice came directly from her or indirectly through her representatives Ron and Nealu who ran the California ashram.

Our job as residents was to attend all worship services, silently repeat our mantras, work for Ammachi and the organization and obey those in charge. No questions were asked. No dissent was allowed. Those were the rules. We residents held weekly meetings to discuss ashram activities. Although I didn't realize it at the time, no treasurer's report was ever given.

Disillusionment

After becoming aware of the negative aspects of life at M.A. Center I still had a difficult time leaving and getting on with my life. I don't know why. I was having some health problems so I didn't go on the 1994 tour. I didn't want to go anyway because I didn't want to be around Ammachi. I couldn't reconcile all the hugs and loving with the chaos I'd experienced at her ashrams.

A friend of mine, an outside devotee, was going out of town for a few days. She asked me to housesit for her and care for her pets. I mentioned it to Nealu; I could tell that he didn't really approve but he didn't try talking me out of going. After all most people would be on tour and it would be quiet at the ashram.

Two days before my housesitting engagement Nealu asked me to cancel my plans. When I asked why, he said that more cassette tapes had to be made for the tour. I was shocked. I said, "How can I cancel on such short notice? My friend won't have time to find another house sitter."
He was angry. He said that if I had dedicated my life to the guru then I should put her first. He tried to make me feel guilty. But I didn't break my commitment to my friend. There were boxes of cassette tapes that I copied which were never taken on tour. They just sat in the office. When Nealu returned from tour I asked him why those boxes were never taken. He replied that he couldn't find anyone to bring them to the programs. I returned home shortly after this incident. I still had trouble adjusting to the outside world so I returned in January. I knew 2 weeks after returning that I no longer wanted to be there. I tried telling the residents how I felt but I know they didn't hear me. They just thought I was misguided and that someone had turned my mind against Ammachi.

Afterthoughts

From this difficult experience, I learned not to worship human beings. People can be teachers. We learn from each other, but people are not perfect; we all make mistakes - even teachers. We are all equal and we all deserve respect and kind treatment.

It's okay to join a group or attend a spiritual program. Take your time and be aware of what you're getting involved in. It's important to ask questions and expect answers in return. If your questions are ignored, go unanswered or the answers are not satisfactory to you, the group or organization you're considering may not be for you.

There are many different spiritual paths and you can find one that will meet your needs.

Make an informed decision.

Don't act impulsively as I did.


http://www.myownmind.com/rahimastory.cfm

Sounds a lot like ISKCON...

See the water-turned-into-milk-pudding-miracle performed by Ammaji here.

is that Shivaram swami singing in the background? did he bloop to join Amma?

Strange pudding.

If that miracle is the reason to worship her, then why not have others worship Criss Angel Mindfreak, the latest magician to hit the big-time?

Levitation between Buildings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_lu6LV5Je4

Walks on Water
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBQLq2VmZcA

I was surprised mostly by that guy demanding a miracle, then and there. That is so rude.

Criss Angel is Jesus, obviously. (Thanks, Kalisurfer, for showing me the way)



But, as an afterthought, we still seem to have a conditioned reflex against miracles. OK, it is strange pudding, but still.
Miracles wont grant you bhakti but they are quite wondrous and might say something about Amma. I met quite some people who had life changing meetings with her.
And I was quite impressed with all the reports and videos of the Sri Ganesh Murti's sipping milk a few years ago. (you may make fun of me now)

I once actually got a hug from Amma a year and a half ago. I wrote about it briefly here in this thread and also more extensively in my GR Blog. I liked her a lot, though I could see the trappings involved with many who follow her and consider her a living avatar. I think miracles are possible, and maybe, she really did turn that water into milk, but after seeing so much trickery and magic over the years, such things seem to be extremely suspicious. Thanks for posting the link, it really was fascinating to watch, but the way the guy comes out to question her all by himself, coming right at the camera, it seemed like a setup for a miracle more than an actual spontaneous action.

Criss Angel as Jesus...Wow...at least he has the hair for the role, just needs a little more beard and then lookout antichrists of the world!!!!

Her followers are a bit of problem perhaps, again, as with Chaitanya, that avatara thing they like so much in India. She was in that YouTube clip still in her Krishna Consciousness phase, later she switched to "Devi Bhava" with all the paraphernalia, then she dropped the paraphernalia. But i think she is for real.
But that doesnt change the question what the worth of miracles could be, after we were very careful and being suspicious is necessary, but what could a real miracle mean to us. Just saying: "Oh, she has some siddhi's", sounds so jaded to me somehow.

Groovy stuff kaliji....

i think ashram difficulties are closely related to the general problems of humans living together in many forms such as cities and towns and our daily life having its strains but still, i don't reckon favorable of the focus of the ashramas

i lovingly think of amma as my spiritual mentor even though amidst her organization may apparently have some dinks with the politics and structure

The only problem I have with people who appear to be for real is - what does "being for real" mean? Does it even mean anything special?In today's society miracles are performed all the time, so maybe we are not so easily impressed. I mean, television, computers etc., we known as technology, but could as well be a miracle for common man who do not have not the slightest idea how they work.
Take more traditional miracles, or even turning water into a milky substance. For a person who knows how it works, is it a miracle, or is it just technology?
Is putting a white powder in the bowl beforehand destroying the miracle, or is it the technology of miracle?

With 'being real' in the case of Amma I simply mean that I feel that she is a real spiritual, sincere person. I read a biography (or autobiography, I cant remember nor find it) in which was described that she was Krishna conscious at a very early age. Her parents, in the proper Indian religious fashion, tried to beat it out of her (they thought she was crazy), without success. I cant remember anymore why she changed from Krishna to Devi. Can somebody fill me in on that?

Well, I dont know what a real miracle is. Wikipedia has: 'a miracle is a striking interposition of divine intervention by a god in the universe by which the ordinary course and operation of Nature is overruled, suspended, or modified.'

If you put white powder in the water the change of colour is not a miracle nor technology. Amma would be a trickster or charlatan. That I dont believe, but whether there was any 'divine intervention' going on...

When I think of turning water into milk miracles, it makes me wonder...

"If these people are that in tune with the cosmos that they can actually transform matter....why not do something a little more worthwhile for the people there, at least make some Jelebis to dip in the milk..!"

Amma's cosmic squeeze, an article at Salon magazine.

The letters in response to this article are interesting too. Here's a few:

In that film of her turning water into pudding, didn't any of you notice that the camera turns away when the alleged transformation takes place? The camera operator turns the shot onto the faces and hands of onlookers and away from the bowl. We never see the "miracle". And those two men who come out before the miracle and say, "Show us a sign, if you're real!" are obviously actors. Their delivery is revealingly artificial. The entire thing is staged, with no actual siddhi being shown on film.

Someone in an earlier post menitoned Jesus and His miracles. If you study the New Testament thoroughly, you find that in every single case the miracles He performed helped other people. He would heal them, raise them from the dead, feed famished multitudes (not just a fingerful of pudding), etc. In not a single case did He perform a miracle to draw attention to Himself or to prove anything, least of all the challenges of skeptics.

That Amma would stage this piece of deception and film it (and she didn't actually film it) necessarily casts doubt on everything she does.

Chew everything ten times before swallowing, my friends.

you are so kinky

Maybe you like the miracles of the christian Myrna Nazzour in Damascus better; she is exuding olive oil. Six independent scientific analyses have been conducted on the oil which exudes from her body. Two in Syria, two in Germany, one in Paris, France and one in Rome, Italy. The results are identical: it is 100% pure olive oil. See story here.

I know of this Myrna; I'm an email correspondent with her principal biographer (he's a friend of a friend of mine). I've studied this person's visions and phenomena in some depth, and while these events are, it seems, supernatural, or perhaps a better word would be preternatural, so that scientists wouldn't be able to explain them, I'm convinced they're not holy. They appear to be paranormal phenomena from a dark place, but counterfeiting as holy and from God. Jesus did say (Myrna is a Christian, so it's appropriate to quote Jesus here), "False messiahs and false prophets will arise, performing signs and wonders."

This is just my opinion, though.

vegans couldn't use this product since it isn't plant sourced

health food stores couldn't call it natural but they could call it supernatural

i suppose if the chemical analysis yielded no heavy metals, pesticides, the olive oil could be billed as organic

i suspect these wonders are of the black madonna or kali ma as they are of darkness

I am quite interested to know how you came to your opinion that these phenomona are not holy. Are you a Protestant now or do you think that this is a matter of metabolism?

Its indeed an interesting story thanks for the link softbrain. while the oil may not be vegan, at the current rate of $25 for 3 liters of olive oil these days in the US (thanks to the rising Euro) I would welcome her to dinner anytime.

The movie of “Amma’s miracle” which people revered to earlier in this topic is indeed by actors, as it’s from the movie “River of Love” and is a re-enactedment of the event described in which Sudhamani (Amma’s name before she became a swamini) transformed milk into payasam. This was years before she was known to the world and the event is not captured on film, but have only been seen by the villagers and other people attending that day.
But to be sure, this ‘miracle’, to me always seemed a bit silly. If it really happened, as it might as well have, she only did it to satisfy the desire of the villagers that saw her enter Krishna bhava at the time and didn’t understand that the true miracle is in fact the union with God that every individual can achieve. As for Amma, the true miracle I see her do every day is consoling the masses, without end, without taking a break or even attending to her own bodily needs. Having travelled with her, I can testify for that, and after my ISKCON experiences, I must say I’m still very rationally scrutinizing her. But after 7 years, she still amazes me positively.

Hi Pingala, have you seen that "guru" documentary by Louis Theroux? He came away with a positive impression of Amma as well.

Yes, I saw bits and pieces of it on Youtube. It's what I myself experienced the first time that I saw her as well. I went there with kind of a chip on my shoulder and very sceptic indeed. But the experience was life changing nevertheless, even though I was very observant for any signs of suggestion that might have made that hug so special. I couldn't come up with any and I couldn't rationally explain why a mere hug just made me feel so blissfull, peacefull and close to what I perceive as God-feeling. Her humility and simplicity amidsts it all was maybe the most remarkable of all, always speaking of her self as one of us, always mindful of others and their wellbeing. I know that in the ashrams and around her people sometimes exhaust themselves, trying to copy her stamina or the Indian brahmacharini's, who are very much used to hard physical labor. But again, she never asks for this nor is there any pressure to do so if you don't want to, it all comes down to your own responsibility. I personally always take it very easy - either on tour or in the ashram - I never understood what the benefit is of sleep-depravation and being grumpy to people around me because of it

I’ve written previously in this thread and the GR blog area about receiving a hug by Amma a few years ago, it was a great experience all the way around. I have no way of knowing why the hug felt so good, considering the amount of time one has to wait for it, waiting and waiting in long lines, but if even that waiting had a different quality to it, almost like one is somehow suspended in time, where one does not feel like it is passing by as fast as it does into the early morning hours.

I was not looking for some type of miraculous experience, or another guru disciple relationship, but that experience was something that stayed, for when I look back, I do feel a sense of calmness and a smile wanting to form on my face. I was mindful of the disciples and followers who where there to make the event take place, for it takes a lot of human work behind the scenes to make one of Amma’s weekend events work, for like a clock, you have to organize and time a thousands of people who have come for the lecture, bhajans and the main event, the hug.

Like any spiritual organization that is formed around charismatic person, it attracts a wide range of personalities, ranging in patience and ability to work with others, and also some who may have their own agenda in mind. The organization around Amma is typically hierarchical, with a top to down order of people of importance and responsibility. You also have a heavy Indian cultural element that comes with the organization, so their can be people looking for salvation to come from above and a willingness to give their personal power over to someone else through surrender. When this happens, you get the typical dysfunction found when large amount of people are involved in a East/West mixed bag of cultural interchanges. One does not have to approach it that way, for I know of a few ex-ISKCON friends who approach Amma in their own personal way, not going into total selfless service due to having already tried that method in their younger years. They incorporate some of Amma’s teachings into their life to one degree or another going down the road of life.

Also a final note, welcome to GR Pingala, glad to have you aboard. Having read a few of your posts so far makes me think that you may have found a home to feel comfortable in sharing your thoughts and experiences. Looking forward to your further contributions.

I agree! and i think Pingala understands the institutionalized problems.

I noticed that ol' Jatayu was aroun' here this mornin'.

Well said, Kalisurfer.

And thank you for welcoming me. I must say, only in the two days of reading the posts in this forum I feel already so much more relieved of the heavy burden of my past in ISKCON dogma. Not that I blame anybody for that, cause as I said, I fully "brainwashed" myself back then, making myself feel inadequate every step of the way for the smallest things (even to this day I still feel "bad" when eating with the "wrong" hand). But it is a huge relieve somehow to read other peoples experiences with this and to know that I'm not alone.

Babu Rahu Prabhu, i have as one of my "guys" these days a follower of Mata Amma, spent time with her as staff traveling around. Just visited her in Detroit area he did. Cool lady