[ Thus start the Gaudivedanta Repercussions to Alternative Dimensions and Religious Psychosis. -A. ]


still laughing . . ., as I thought for a moment guhakam could be for real;
or else, that truth where there are no people with small buttholes (only big ones?):

yadi vā tat satyaṃ yatra guhakā janās teṣām pāyavo 'lpās te na vidyante, ato mahā-pāyava evety arthaḥ.

But alas, the word is guda, not guha, so it must be ārṣa-prayoga, a special usage only found in the writings of the wisest of the wise, the venerable Rishis of yore.
Them sages, mammals, who did it as they do on the Discovery Channel . . .

Nono, guha/guhya is also used for anus; it is the "cave", "hidden place", "concealed", "private" etc. I should know, because I chanted a pooping mantra for the better part of three years as a part of my purity repertoire at Radhakund. This is the bonafide procedure and according to some babajis a mantra to be chanted when cleaning yourself with mud after passing stool:

ekA liGge guhye tisras daza vAma-kare nRpa |
hasta-dvaye ca saptAnyA mRdaH zaucopapAdikAH || HBV 3.174 ||

"Once for the organ, thrice for the anus, ten times for the left hand, O King;
and seven times for two hands, this is the procedure for cleaning with mud."

Some editions (like the GGM online version) read verse 174 as gude, but the hard copies I had (Mahanambrata's being the source), kept reading it as guhye. Perhaps Puridas (whose edition was used for GGM) didn't see the need to conceal the cavity and spelled it straight. The GGM edition has gude above (and a missing "ca" in their edition), but still uses guhye in the following reiteration:

guhye dadyAn mRdaM caikAM pAyau paJcAmbu-sAntarAH |
daza vAma-kare cApi sapta pANi-dvaye mRdaH || HBV 3.177 ||

"Having granted mud to anus once as also for the feet, flushing fivefold with water in between,
tenfold for the left hand as well as surely sevenfold for both hands, the mud."

There was a time when I thought this was important enough to be put into a sadhana-manual I was compiling. Now how spooky is that? So guhya is indeed a word for anus, and the -ka suffix should make it diminutive. (For the record, the two verses above are fully accurate translations, and have not been purpowarped by myself.)

However the actual word in 1.1.1 is kuhakam or "juggler" and guhakam was my jugglery; therefore, if you go to Vaikuntha you can bet your butt nobody will be juggling with the dreadlocks 'round your anus, because all devotees of the lord know how to clean their diminutive butts using the right procedure, and therefore no rastas will form at the said location to begin with.

The wod kuhaka also means "cautious", and given the homophobia among devotees it makes sense that those with minuscule buttholes would be cautious, as the scripture expressly states that there is no path in (ni-rasta) to the abode of the Lord for those who didn't keep their anuses in devotional form. The arsa-prayogis of yore were clever enough to make the phrase double as a code of conduct, "mini-anus ingoing path restriction", reflecting the wisdom Tony Halme of heavyweight boxing fame has tattooed above his ass ("one-way-only").

Talk about the wonders of multiple layers of meaning! But the fact of the matter is that these readings are as valid as some of Jiva Goswami's jugglery in the Sandarbhas, and I daresay more legitimate than some Bhaktivedanta purportations.

In conclusion, do you now concur with my views on religious psychosis and the patently bizarre patterns of behavior it can cause in men of sufficient faith?

Speaking of men, those verses are not for women to chant however, because they do not have lingas; even if this babaji would have my ex-wife chant the pooping mantra too. I don't think he understood the meaning himself, the magic was in the fact that it was in Sanskrit; and of course he also didn't do the full rounds of mud-granting to organ, cavity, and so forth with water splashes at intervals, but the short version of mud-to-butt-and-flush, mud-to-hands-and-feet-and-flush, that everybody followed. Perhaps women need to have an operation and get a lingam to qualify for full ritual purity; I think this may be the reason why they are not allowed as temple priests in orthodox Hindu temples.

Incidentally a Finnish word for gay is "hintti", and a natural urban Helsinki slang twist can bend it into "hindu" even though the twisted form isn't really derived in practice for obvious reasons. I do remember hearing some kids use it with the intended meaning of "gay" though (or "homo" as they say it, "hintti" is an icky type of slick homo). Some examples of common Helsinki slang derivation for the above are handu (Engl. deriv. for "hand"), friidu (Swe. deriv. for girl), and so on.

yeah, I know guhya is used for the secret passage, the northern gate; I guess once one has become so transcendentalized through years of mud on one's prick the difference between guha, guda and guhya all vanishes; really, it was small-minded of me to even stretch to that layer and scratch the reason beyond knowing.

i concur and am ready to sign everything without reading the smallprint;
holy cats, these mantras are so potent!

for this reason I have attached here the certified pure chanting of two of my electronic disciples reciting tejo-vari-mrdam (mrdam, apropos mud on the organ):

Click to view attachment

Well Aran, you are heartily welcome to read for example my latest blog called On Entering Alternative Dimensions with a bit of thought, and explore the rest of the content there to get an idea of the multidimensional Vorlon empire I have been clandestinely building to establish the Greater Symmetry of the Universe. We just like to have a light-hearted laugh at times about all the pedantry of the past, and of the trend of taking it so damned seriously. I think you may need to do a bit more reading between the lines, and also project less while giving more of a benefit of doubt on us penners and sinners, and our variable mental states.

I think Bhagavata is a great book, and I still remember substantual chunks of it by heart in the original, but I also think that most people read their fundamentalism and orthodoxy into it to an extent that almost completely cancels the original nondual and universal insights found on its pages. I do not reject the visionary; hell, I would be putting myself out of business if I did! But I am against us puny humans trying to force the grand fabric of the universe into our little private cavities; when someone does that, suddenly the Great Omigod Reality gets a pungent stench that puts me off.

On the business fronteer, my ongoing Internet Industrial Revolution campaign is an example of merging together platforms into a grand symmetric whole. In my personal blog, I have written in grand abundance about the unifying factors of diverse traditions; for example on the Three Paths of Buddhism and Judeochristian, Indic and Pagan traditions.

It's just that this site happens to be called Gaudiya Repercussions, so we come here to jam and repercuss whenever we're in the mood, and whatever the melody of the day happens to be, that's what we play. We're free-flowing penners, you see, who can't be bothered to constrain themselves to a particular positive or negative approach. We just go with the flow and live with the times.

I do read your blog, Ananda, and take your point regarding the 'visionary'; but, and it's a sizeable but, in relation to the Gaudiya experience itself, there seems to be little, if any, testament to such 'Greater Symmetry' by our disgruntled - arguably the same may be equally applied to our gruntled - members here on GR; this does not chime with my own experience - perhaps I was doing it wrong...

Haha, well you definitely weren't getting the full rap then! I bet you were with Sridhar Maharaja; he was of a more philosophical bent, and in fact I remember enjoying his writings and insights a great deal back in the days. He was a man of a broader mind, while the same can unfortunately be said of very very few others. Oh, and I also enjoyed the biography of Radharaman Charan Das Babaji a great deal; a very broad-minded and enthusiastic saint, but then again he was hopping mad half of the time and I dig inspired free-floating freaks in general, so that just tells something about my personality rather than my perspectives on GV. (And he is of course among the heretics according to both IGM and the mainstream babaji folk -- even though the latter are being a bit more hush-hush about it these days for political reasons.)

At its best, fundamentalist and orthodox Gaudiya Vaishnavism can get about as divisive as a pair of scissors. You find the rabbit trail leading straight back to the likes of Krishnadas and Jiva, who both spiced their writings with very divisive and practically hate-inciting material (KD with his "who doesn't accept Chaitanya but accepts Krishna is a demon in this age" and all the spoof biographies that put down every other figure of his age before Chaitanya, and Jiva with his endless pedantry and diatribes against everyone before him who was able to write).

Rupa and Sanatana (that is, if you attribute HBV to Gopala Bhatta or take it as something didn't write of his own will) come across as more moderate, on the other hand, and I rather enjoy some of their works, beginning with BRS and the way Rupa took the old dramatic theory and redeployed it with a great deal of imagination. Chaitanya seems to also have been a fine inspirational figure with a good gig going on, but it's a bit hard to find him because the tradition buried him with megatons of sectarian biography to advance their own agendas. Needless to say I of course don't have too much sympathy for the GV strait-jacket (or straight-jacket) into which the good stuff was packed.

My personal background comes first from a local ISKCON temple and initiation from Suhotra, and service under a former army captain who took over the reins after ousting out the previous temple president; followed by their painting me black and booting me out after I reported Suhotra's abuses in quite some length; followed by my finding Narayana Maharaja, and you know the deal there; when I concluded that chapter by submitting some uncomfortable but legitimate questions, I was ousted and the entire Finnish congregation (whom I was organizing) were told to completely shun my association. That was followed by Radhakund and the über-orthodoxy of the babaji-tradition under several mentors (in hindsight, among whom Ananta Das Babaji was by far the wisest in my sense of the word, but also the oldest and busiest, which led me to seek additional guidance). Vinod Baba of Varshana is a genuine holy man whose company and broad heart I enjoyed a great deal. And that one grizzly babaji whom I followed at the end and who set himself up as a super-guru was the worst con man, abuser and criminal I've ever met in my whole life.

I like to think I got a a fair cut of the GV landscape along the way. I notice in your CV you were with Maharajas Sridhar and Puri; you got a really mellow ride there, I can tell you that much, just to get a bit of a context to your experiences contra those of many of us. If you weren't in Harikesa's zone in Central/North Europe for example, both during his reign and after his exit with the monies and the missus, you have no idea what kinds of tarballs ePiTau, Dhy, myself, Zanardi and others "in the zone" got served for their Hare Krishna love feast of spirituality and book production+sales. Did you ever go on a month-long marathon to pull 10 hours a day in -20°C freeze to be able to jump up and down before the dolls and celebrate the "lakshmi-point" readings "for them" while temple budget was having a chronic deficit? In general, we got it a bit harder in the Euroland ISKCON than you'd get in the Gaudiya Math anywhere (except if you joined full-on the Mahabhagavata Narayana Maharaja Nityasiddha cult and became one of their many dedicated groupies).

When I tried to render countless free services working my ass off and paying for everything, jumping wherever the kengurus told me to jump with faith that Krishna will take care of everything, I'm still 10,000 euro on the dark side from my GV times, and have an ex-wife in India hooked up with a babaji as his elite discipless, a babaji who practically forced the issue of our split by forbidding her to eat anything I cook or touch after I disagreed with him on some of his dealings, and she sure as hell won't be paying her half of the shared GV investments anytime soon. I also worked my ass off creating a 100 gig media library to collecting countless threads of information, building devotee support forums and attempting to network and support the GV devotees scattered the world around, yet I got next to no support or sense of solidarity from the audience of "spiritually advancing sincere devotees" (a handful of exceptions aside), and frankly got more of a sense of goodwill and gratitude from the local dogs I used to sit with to eat and share my madhukari almsfood. In the end, I was also booted out of my own GV support forums with an ultimatum when the word got out that I might not be a strict and straight GeeVee any longer. With all that, I lost my faith in the general sense that GV was a spiritually beneficial tradition, as I saw the pits of it in too many directions and in too many ways, and it looked like an ongoing pattern across the board.

So please don't mind if I have a bit of a larger echo base for repercussing about my GV experiences from over the years. I understand it's been more mellow for you, and I don't want to make you think otherwise of your good experiences; consider yourself very fortunate. Let's be reciprocal however, and let me ask you to also grant us the liberty to repercuss our experiences' worth to make more sense and churn some more worth out of all those years, or at least have a hearty laughter about how mad it all was, and give it a light-hearted twist back towards the forbidden cavities it emanated from.

We can have a separate GV appreciations thread if you like; I also want to keep a space for our repercussion jams, and I don't feel a need to constantly be pussyfooting around the holy cows because it thwarts straight-forward progressive dialogue and curtails the evolution of new angles and insights, as everyone will be wondering what others might say and think about what they post. Is that alright, sound like a sound idea?

This was split from the Alternative Dimensions and Religious Psychosis thread. Don't know if this is the right forum for the thread — the repercussions are a bit out there.

Grand, those electronic disciples of yours, ePiTau. Do they understand the meaning of the mantra?

Hi Ananda - just a couple of quick points: I was with ISKCON for some four years before initiation from Sridhar Maharaj, and, I suppose, did my fair share of marathons...

At least, I did as much as one in his right mind would ever wish to; mostly, I served as pujari, guest-master and cook (which could be, in its way, a rather gruel-ing business).

Also, I understand only too well the shortcomings of contemporary practitioners/preachers (there's one in particular who seemed to try at every turn to make our lives a living hell), not to mention the divisiveness of certain founding members of the tradition...

Now, a GV appreciation thread on GR - what a novel notion! (Not that I personally have the inclination to start one.)

Incidentally, I can relate to what you say here:

I become a honorable life-time member of the forum I created. Ha, ha! I don't know why. It must be that someone can see the sweetness in my heart, after all.

I went on marathon one year, my first, then I always had something else important to do during that time. I thought that was the smartest. There are degrees of nightmares.

After reading what you write, I can understand your side better. Maybe I myself never believed everything I was told, and never met all those strange babas. It sounds from you it is better to have avoided them.

Some had a relatively nice time in Korsnäs, me, I think Epitau and Dhyana, and maybe someone more here (speak up if you feel to want to be included). A little bit of a überclass and were we always had direct connection with the guru/CEO, and could even influence things to go our ways. Ah, Epitau was certainly more über than me there. Guru always liked him better. And even when guru complained to me about his behavior, that never changed.

Hey, I have no problems starting appreciation threads for Osama Bin Laden and Adolf Hitler if push comes to shove! There's always something good and worth learning everywhere — like you never know when you might need to rally up a good jihad or get that empire finally going! It's just that we generally tend to remember the prominent characteristics of whatever we've encountered, since they are the ones that have impacted us the most. A lot of us took a lot of impact, and moreover we impacted at varying velocities and frequencies; and naturally the repercussion resounds accordingly.

We actually had occasional IGM appreciation threads back in the days at Gaudiya Discussions, just so it wasn't a constant pissing contest to fuel the negative emotions of everyone involved. A heathy balance is the A and O of O and A.

A far as "I did as much as one in his right mind would ever wish to"; many of us were quite systematically alienated from that "right mind" and moreover from the very concept of "what I wish"... Just toss that false ego into the fire of sankirtan (especially TSKP, which was the way, the truth and the light, and it made you or it broke you), surrender and and just head on one more time (and sell one more book to the next granny by hook or by crook)! Our bible was Nectar of Book Distribution, our rock stars and role models were Navina Nirada and the rest of the gung-ho big time salesmen, and our slogan was Ein fach weitermachen (by our TSKP hero Rohini Suta Prabhu ACBSP), which was eerily similar in ring to Arbeit macht freit (which could also have well been written above the heavy iron gates that guarded the entrance to the inner yard of our Helsinki temple).

And on that note of bringing things together under the Great Omigod Whole, here I have combined the jihad, the ritviks, amanita muscaria and bhakta Butters into one holesome whole, bundling up certain archetypes and potentials under a single banner.

Click to view attachment

I have noticed this myself and I always wondered why. Even in the early days of the Net (1995 or thereabouts) I read to read sick horror tales of temple life as well as foam-spitting fundamentalism on VNN and Chakra and wondered how the hell all this was happening. And then when I did a bit more digging I discovered that all or most were coming from Europe. I always wondered why. And then Harikese fell down.


I remember this episode and the 'Dharma Reloaded' topic you started here. I was also shocked at the way you were treated and actually was quite enraged at how such sentiments should occur in people who were supposedly closer to the 'real core' of the Gaudiya tradition which is divine love. And I contributed my enraged sentiments in that thread. Because I spoke out against Advaita das for the first time I lost his friendship, but frankly he is the sort of person whose friendship I neither need nor covet so he can get lost after all these years. We get complaints against him on Nitai's forum from time to time and it looks like he hasn't changed a bit.

But I was very sorry to hear of the way they treated you and still am. I might say that this episode was also the final straw in my own journey. I never told you this but the things you were saying in your blog at the time was very close to the things that I was feeling and experiencing. I mean, I never went through what you did by becoming hardcore and living in a cave and all that, but all the things you were writing on VrajaJournal about your psychological development and also your understanding of the teachings, were incredibly similar to what I was thinking, feeling and going through at the time too. I had been going through my own process of deep disillusionment for nearly 2 years previously and discussed it in confidence with a couple of common friends, and was about ready to declare my own disillusionment and such when you did the same with your Dharma Reloaded. So I decided to sit back and see how you rode it out so that I could have a 'template' for making a similar 'coming out'. But you received such vociferously shocking treatment that I was taken aback. All I did was speak out against what you got from your former friends, but I always felt a little guilty that I didn't do more. I'm sorry Ananda, you could probably have done with someone standing next to you but I wasn't ready and couldn't do more. In many ways I am still not 'out' but I have always felt this pang of guilt about you and I'm sorry for that. But any wonder, this was certainly the final straw for me, how even among followers and proponents of what I still believe to be the representation of the idealisation of 'divine love', it's members could resort to such disgusting fanatical and fundamentalist beheaviour, which finally proved to me that GV was - at it's very core' - no different to any other religion and plagued with exactly the same problems as they are.

While I'm here, to report that strange PM in the other thread, interesting thread you've started on psychosis there. I've been dealing with quite a few psychotic patients recently.

They are not ready yet.
In time the meanings will surely all be revealed to them.

At least they do not misunderstand. They don't speculate. They are totally obedient.

Ananda, this is just hysterical!

O'gosh! (That's the Vorlon I met in the pub the other day.) I was on a good Vorloroll yesterday!!

Brainiac; I did get the vibe you had been somewhere in the twilight zone for a good while there. I've been watching your neuropsychoanalytics with curiosity, as I have a grand deal of shared interests; just haven't had much time to commit to extended exchanges, as I've kept busy enough getting the materials of life together.

No worries over my having had to face the music myself; it's not like it was the first time around, as over the years I had already gotten quite accustomed to the cavital punk booming out from hard core devotee bases, with four or five major expulsions behind me that I had learned to assess as but a farthing's worth, and so the last outburst of the fundamentanalists faded like a gentle whisper in the wind as I hit the road, rejecting the path of devotional odorations in favor of fresh mountain air.



Yes, this is evinced in the statements of the arsa-yogis of yore, and you are surely in line with the revelation.

yasya deve parA bhaktir yatha deve tathA gudau /
tasyaite kathitA hy arthAH prakAzante mahAtmanaH //

"Whose is high adoration of god, and as for the god so for the gudau,
And thence the worth that is said surely for the big-soul to manifest."

This is why the pooping rules and adoration of the butt with oblations of mud are important for attaining the highest abode where the absence of juggled guda-rastas is evident. Some unscrupulous commentators have however attempted to alter and interpret these verses for their own adulterated purposes, establishing themselves as show-bottle gurus who mislead the blind leading the blind into the dark cavity of material nescience (te 'piss-a-tantryAm guru-dAmni baddhAH).

I was going to say something more regarding past tribulations, but then was struck by the thought that we could well be in danger of beginning to sound like THIS...

I was going to just post a row of smilies, but since that would have been a one-liner, I had to write a precursory sentence here.

Well I used to live for years on end with my head stuck up in a massive transcendental cavity!

Massive? You were lucky, Ananda. I had mine stuck up in a very small one!

Thank you for the comic relief, Aran!

You might not know this, but a picture was taken of your predicament:

Click to view attachment

That's nice, thank you. That relieves me somewhat. Speaking of shared interests, I have a HUGE backlog of papers to review that deal with delusion, psychosis, hallucinations, etc. I'm right now reviewing a new paper that proposes a general neurocognitive model of delusional disorder that attempts to enhance or review the current diagnostic criteria in DSM-IV. In the meantime you may find this recent review of Urgesi's findings interesting.

While I'm on the subject, here's an extract from the Urgesi paper mentioned above that may be relevant to what you have written about your experiences in your psychosis thread:


I want to find out more about the "transcendence" measure they used and what components went into it.

[ Split from sheer stupidity to prevent smearing by cavital repercussions. ]

A good one from Rohini Suta ACBSP, the legendary hero of all TSKP folk, was along the lines of "If you pass stool after a meal, soon Yamaraja will come". Quoting that, the sankirtan leadership once blocked me from going to toilet after breakfast, and I had to block my rectum instead. According to yogis of yore however, sufficient anal retention will make the toxins return to your body (not unlike the famous semen of celibators flowing upward the spine to your brain).

Incidentally when you finally get to relieve yourself after the prescribed Vedic period of retention, it feels a bit like Yamaraja coming out of your rectum. I guess it's a no-win scenario there, because we're living in the material world. Better to just go to the place where pooping is only done when it pleases god in his human-like sports, and then it'll always drop out in perfect time and composition for his pleasure and yours. Naturally transcendentally.

This explains where the word "shithead" comes from.

Therefore it's important to recognize the pre-eminent position of the founder acharyas, and only the most advanced pure devotees can understand what can possibly be going on in their transcendental heads, and how it ended up in there to begin with. And if that is all for the pleasure of the supreme autocrat, then toilet humor should be established as a regulative principle and broadcast in all three worlds as the supreme means of purging one's inner being of all material impediments. Therefore the arsa-yogis of yore said of the scientific process of abhidheya and prayojana as follows — laughiMghArda he zitzin' hIs-pAnts iti (Guhya-sutra).

very appropriately

The truth of ārṣa-prayoga however emanated from the transcendental rAja-guhyam of ePiTauRSi, which is pavitram uttamam and proof of the Vedic pudding in the face of contradiction. (And on that note, the Vedic word-for-word pudding has evinced why Windows decided to label their half-baked operating system "Vista".)

So noted to not make me inadvertently appropriate the appropriety you recognized; in my view, he is the ArSARSi and devAdeva of all punditry.

So as to not smear sheer stupidity with our discussions on the subtle sciences of ArSa-prayoga, I have split five posts off there and into our cavity here. It seems that whenever the matter surfaces, material begins to naturally emanate because we have congested material desires and inclinations.