The cult of Lord Jagannatha contains within it Shaivite, Vaishnava, Shakta, Buddhist, Jain, Ganapatya, Suryas, Sikhs amongst others. Jagannatha is India's most eclectic and universal deity.

Sri Chaitanya and his Pancha Tattva is also included but also the Pancha Sakha too, Achutyananda das, Ananta das, Balarama das, Jagannatha das and Yasobanta das. They are all facets of the cult of Jagannatha, branches of the same tree.

Vaishnavism in Puri is also mixed with Buddhism too.

Does anyone know of any universalist traditions which honor both the Chaitanya tradition along with the Pancha Sakhas? It would seem that the original sectarian schims of the Chaitanya tradition is cutting itself off from the Orissan Pancha Sakha traditions. So far I have located the Jagannatha Centre which honors Chaitanya and Achutyananda das, whom they consider to have been a disciple of Chaitanya. I think they chant Hare Rama first then Hare Krishna. there are in fact two ways round for the maha mantra. The Gaudiya's have rejected Jagannatha das, but the followers of Jagannatha das accept Chaitanya. Have all Gaudiyas rejected one of the Pancha Sakha and if so do they reject all the others?

Surely to be in the spirit of Jagannatha universalism, as Jagannatha is, we have to embrace all the branches whilst focusing on our specific branches of focus.

Jagannatha is a pleasant form of God. He is incomplete. Does this subtily suggest a philosophy that the form of God however revealed to humankind and top most devotees is always incomplete in a certain sense. Does God have an inconcievable form ultimately beyond His formlessness. This would make more sense.

I have decided to learn as much as I can about Jagannatha and His traditions. Anyone out there also interested in a non sectarian Jagannathism? :tilak: :pope: :namaste:

this is all old news, iskcon now has a monopoly on jaganatha

It is widely known in certain secret (in the know) circles, that ISKCON actually has a monopoly on God in general. They are fighting over the international trademark rights with Fundamentalist Baptists and Jihadi Islamist. Should be interesting to see how the International Courts handle this.

Imagine different faiths of the world having to pay royalty rights to ISKCON every time they use the word GOD?

On the God as trademark front, visually, the Fundamentalist Baptists have the advertising lead so far!

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dhyana and epitau have gone to see their beloved lord jaganatha

I believe the theory that the Jagannath murti is originally native (aboriginals, adivasi), comparable to the Totem pole of Native American Indians, perhaps some Buddhist influence, not the sculptor, interrupted-version of glossified GV. The eyes, head and placement of the arms could never have led to a "normal" looking murti, even had he been able to finish the statue.

In Oriya GV they also use the mantra "Om Rama Krishna Hari" in which the name Rama denotes Balarama. An other important difference with GV is that Chaitanya is seen as the partial manifestation of Jagannath and Buddha. I dont know Oriya but I understand that Achyutananda's Shunya Samhita (Arunodaya Press, Cuttack, 1914) is a very important source on Oriya GV, so is Ishavara das' Chaitanya Bhagavata (also in Oriya, Bhubaneswar, 1966). Described in there is e.g. their meditation on the Void, which is not nothingness but the Purush immanent in the Void conceived as the Void personified. (Prabhat Mukherjee, History of the Chaitanya Faith in Orissa, Manohar, New Delhi 1979, with bibliography).
Another interesting source of early Oriya vaishnavism might be the Narada Panca Ratra as published by the Bibliotheca Indica (I can't find it anymore, so I don't have further info on that), but that edition is not the NPR as quoted by Rupa Gosvami c.s. and appears to contain parts written by Purushottama, father of King Pratapa Rudra.

An important book on the Jagannath Temple is:
STARZA-MAJEWSKI, OLGIERD M.L., The Jagannatha temple at Puri and its deities.
Amsterdam, 1983. Large 8vo. (V)+276 pp. + plan, 74 b/w plates., 24 figs. Selected bibliogr. Softcover. Thesis University of Amsterdam. English text, with summary in Dutch.

I saw that book once when it just came out (too expensive for me) and looked through it in the bookstore but could not find any reference to Bhaktivinode Thakur (or Kedernath Dutt) in any managerial function there. The book can now be purchased for a mere €45,- here.

About the influence of Chaitanya on Orissa the historian R.D. Banerjee (History of Orissa,vol I, Prabasi Press, Calcutta 1930, p.330) wrote:
"Suddenly from the beginning of the l6th century a decline set in in the power and prestige of Orissa, with a corresponding decline in the military spirit of the people. The decline is intimately connected with the long residence of the Bengali Vaishnava saint Chaitanya in the country. If we accept only one-tenth of what the Sanskrit and Bengali biographies of the saint state about his influence over Pratiparudra and the people of the country, even then, we must admit that Chaitanya was one of the principal causes of the political decline of the empire and the people of Orissa. Not only that, the acceptance of Vaishnavism, rather Neo-Vaishnavism, was the real cause of the Muslim conquest of Orissa twenty-eight years after the death of Prataparudra."

Food for reflection.

i did a research paper on Jagannath and the temple. one of the best sources is : The Cult of Jagannath and the Regional Tradition of Orissa. South Asia Interdisciplinary Regional Research Programme: Orissa Research Project by Anncharlott Eschmann, Hermann Kulke, Gaya Charan Tripathi

the gist is, historically speaking, the original deity was most likely a 'post' deity type of rural Orissa who was likely a Bhairava identified (maybe later in time) as Shiva, who later was given a consort Bharavi. Then later, (<850 CE ?) began to be identified as Laskmi-Madhava/Vishnu in an erotic mood (see Jaganathastakam). then lastly, under Pancaratric/Epic influence Baladev was added to the altar and Laksmi became Subhadra.

The remnants of various stages and folklore can be found in the mantras and ritual (see book), as rather than throw away the previous, it was absorbed into the new conception, which is why Jagannath is seen as so universal and absorbs (like the void?... ) all the various deities and philosophies. Quite an interesting temple and personality indeed.

i think youre right. thats bad news for me since i blooped. iskconian Jagannath godships appear on the wiki entry for Jagannath http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagannath

tapati, you can put jaiganatha deities on your altar now

Yes, why not, look at these people:

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are these native American Indians? no, they are Naga from Manipur India, they might also make objects that look like they are made by American Indians.

The totem pole deities do certainly resemble Jagannatha and co. Didnt American Indians migrate ultimately over the Bering Straits from the eastern countries, Mongolia, China, India to begin with anyway. And what about the cults of the Pacific Isles? They have similar looking figures like Jagannatha. There is also a theory that Jagannatha is actually a form of Narasimha, combined with a pillar. Narasimha comes out from a pillar. One of Puris oldest temple is a Narasimha temple. I cannot remember the source where I read this. I am planning on doing some extensive research and am ordering many books as possible from my public library. It would seem then that the Jaganntha cult is a blend of Buddhism, Vaishnavism (Purushottam-Narasimha-Vasudev), Shaivism, tribal, Jain etc and each can see what they like in there. Balabhadra is Shankarshan Shiva, Ananta Vasudev and Balarama as they are all linked anyway.

What about Sudarshan, who is simply a pillar-totem, and a chakra. One does not hear much about this deity and Iskcon do not even have him in their temple.
It is a shame that every time you type in Jagannatha (or Krishna or Chaitanya for that matter) on a search engine Iskcon diminates the scene with its narrow minded version. One has to wade through hundreds of links connected with Iskcon to find anything seriously scholarly and actualy historical.
I wonder if Puri has an alchemical tradition?

One interesting thing I read in Marglin's Wives of the God King, which is about the Devi Dasis, is that there is a secret Tantric tradition where Shaktas see Jagannath as actually Kali Herself and offer her the five M's, which includes wine of which there are xtensive rituals to purify it from its evil influences. The shakta priest sometimes conducts the ceremony within the Jagannatha temple in secret and he eats ganja to bring sucess in the meditation of this ritual.

I have also read and I'l have to track it down that the residents of Puri are great Bhang drinkers too, and that ganja is acceptable to Jagannath dham.

One good archive source on Jagannatha are the numerous articles found in the Orissan Review.

Bhaktivinoda Thakur does mention how the Ati Vadis smoke ganja and under the inspiration recieve revelations from Jagannatha although he frowns on this. He also mentions tey have an alchemical tradition too and operate like the Freemasons. They sound quite cool to me, esoteric and alchemical, elixiral ganja pot heads. No wonder Jagannatha first appeared in the west in San Fransisco amongst beats and hips.

I have heard mention that there is a Ratha Yatra in Sicily in old times, although perhaps there is a Sicily in India?

Anyway I want to find out as much as poss about the Pancha Sakhas and cannot track anything in depth on internet. I am ordering a book on Jagannatha Das soon.

My next posts I'll send some articles in. At mo I dont have a scanner though. Will keep posted.

The addition of Sudarshan is definitely from the Pancaratra period (rather late in the iconographical timeline. Some iskcon temples have Sudarshan, but as Sudarshan is the weapon of Vishnu and 4 armed Krishna, it doesn't fit with the 'Gopi-bhava' conception of Jagannath popularized after Caitanya, so it is essentially irrelevant for them, but its there most of the time, at least in larger deity sets.
Italy and the rest of the ancient world had various 'pagan' festivals that surely resembled other festivals around the world but were regional, honoring local deities and local holy places. the idea of 'one supreme god, one religion' bullsh*t was initially the contribution of semitic religions, but caught on in India too later in time (Evola).

So many people (maybe especially on the net) want to find some 'one world religion theme' or something in our ancient human history, i.e. evidence of Buddhism among the Mayas, Jesus came to america and preached, all kinds of wacky stuff. and to my knowledge there is no Sicily in India, and Rathyatra was going on at least since the time Buddhists controlled the temple at the time of Xuanzang's chronicles in the 7th century. The rath held a tooth of the Budhha though.

I restate that the best look at the culture of the temple I have found in English is the book i mentioned. Here is a site you mighht be interested in, discussing the work of Anncharlott Eschmann, one of the fist and one of the most thorough to research traditions of Orissa. (who died quite young an unexpectedly in India after doing field research in Orissa) http://www.mahimadharma.de/

linguistically and symbolically, the navajos have been linked to tibetans as well as in their traditions, they have a record of travelling from a distant area across a land bridge but other than that, most native american tribes originated here and to suggest to them they emigrated from asia, they take that as a great insult

and too, most native american cultures are more evolved than those of india and china and so if there are any influences between asia and the americas, it would have had to originate in the americas first and so perhaps some ancient american indians traveled to china or india and taught them the ways of wakan tanka (sacred bufalo), there are similarities between the cow/bull and american bison and it makes sense as this is how the religious significance of the sacred cow developed in india

Of course Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati and his disciples did not give much importance to the opinions of ‘historians’ regarding transcendental subjects such as Lord Jagannatha. I quote his disciple Narayanadas Bhaktisudhakar better known as Professor Nisikanta Sanyal from his great intro to his work Sri Krishna Chaitanya 1933:

“What value for instance are we to attach to such ‘historical’ finding as this, viz., that the teaching of Sri Chaitanya was the cause of the political downfall of Orissa? Sri Chaitanya teaches that the Absolute is served by all conditions, beings and events, either consciously or unconsciously as regards the agents themselves. The decline as well as the rise of empires and worlds serves equally in their tiny ways the uncompassable Absolute. As soon as their relation of service to the Absolute is grasped by the agents, the real consciousness of the Truth is produced in the humble agent. So long as the Absolute continues to be pedantically regarded as a part of Physical Nature, as cause or effect, there is no consciousness at all even of the issue itself of the real Truth. Sri Chaitanya and His Activities belong to the plane of the Absolute. The empiric historian, with his geographical and chronological apparatus of observation, can have really no proper idea of the grotesque anomaly that he unconsciously perpetrates by his pedantic effort to gauze the Absolute by the standard supplied to her victim by His deluding Energy in the form of the mundane categories that can only limit and define, whereas the function that is required to be performed is to get rid of the necessity of having to do either.
If Srimad Bhagavatam, which professes to treat of the Absolute, is considered to be an object of this phenomenal world, how can it possibly impart to a person who chooses to entertain such illogical thought, any knowledge of its contents? The recipient of the consciousness of the Absolute as well as the communicant of such consciousness must alike belong to the plane of the Absolute consciousness. The empiric consciousness is not in the plane of the Absolute consciousness at all. It can only bungle and commit a deliberate blunder by attempting to limit and define the immeasurable and undefinable under the plea of a necessity that need not be supposed to exist at all.”

So all these ‘important’ historical references could not at all give us the real vision of Jagannatha as Sri Chaitanya saw this apparently incomplete, apparently wooden deity of the Lord of the universe (janmady asya yatah… from Whom everything emanates). Another statement of another disciple of Bhaktisiddhanta, BR Sridhara:

“One may think that the Sri Murti of Lord Jagannatha in Puri appears to be a somewhat awkward figure. His arms seem incomplete, His feet are not visible, His eyes are enormous. Yet Mahaprabhu stood before Him for hours, shedding tears. No one could move Him from that place. What did Mahaprabhu see in that Figure, and what is He to our eyes?”

The points made by the logical, objective, empirical historians basically state that from the primitive development of ideas over time Lord Jagannatha has been produced.! How about He revealed Himself as He already existed in an inconceivable yet somewhat ordinary way and that Sri Chaitanya simply confirmed (revealed) that for us. This is the deepest and never before revealed part of Chaitanya’s lila. This is what has come down through His devotees…
Regarding the gradual manifestation of Vaishnavism in Puri I remembered through secondary sources that hardly any trace of Vaishnavism could be found at all there because of widespread Buddhism as late as the 5th century but that by the 7th century, the place was full of followers of the Vedas. This was mentioned, again, by Professor Sanyal in Sri Krishna Chaitanya:

“From the early Christian epoch onwards the vigor and keenness of intellect that is found in the south of India, is not so much in evidence in other parts of the country. From this time there arose in the southern firmament, like stars of the first magnitude, such extraordinary personalities as those of Sankara, Sathakopa, Yamunacharya, Ramanuja, Vishuswami and Madhvacharya and a host of eminent scholars. Sankaracharya failing to achieve much success with the help of his Brahmanized following, having adopted the ten orders of sannyasis bearing the designations of Giri, Puri, Bharati, etc., winning over the Brahmanas fond of materialistic activities, by the physical and controversial prowess of those sannyasis, set about to effect the destruction of the Buddhists. In those places where he failed to bring over the Buddhists to his side, Sankara did not scruple to obtain even the assistance of the Naga sannyasis for his purpose. And, finally, by the compilation of the commentary of the Vedanta sutra, by mixing up therein the doctrine of fruitive works of the Brahmanas with the principle of empiric knowledge of the Buddhists, he effected the unification of the views of Brahmanas and Buddhists. After this he changed the names of the Buddhist shrines and idols and made them conform to the religion of the Vedas. The Buddhists, partly through fear of violence and partly, in view of the partial retention of their own creed, submitted to the Brahmanas from necessity. Those Buddhists to whom such a procedure appeared to be hateful fled either to Burma or Ceylon, carrying with them the relics of Buddha. It was at this time that the Buddhist pandits made their way to Ceylon from Puri with the tooth?relic of the Buddha Avatara. In the fifth century A.D. the Chinese savant Fa Hian visiting Puri wrote with great joy that in that place Buddhism existed in an unalloyed form and there was no oppression by the Brahmanas. Subsequently, after the change noticed above in the seventh century A.D., the next Chinese scholar Hiuen Tsang wrote from Puri that the tooth of Buddha had been carried to Ceylon and the holy place had been utterly desecrated by the Brahmanas.”

Sanyal was, besides being a trusted, non-partial disciple, also the senior Professor of History at Ravenshaw College, Cuttack, India. Whose take on this are you going with?

I once met some of the residents of Manipur, a province that is off-limits except by special permission, and they are almost all Gaudiya Vaishnavas They were tall and had almost yellow complexions and were very oriental looking. They had come to take the darshana of Visnupriya’s diety of Sri Chaitanya while I was also going there. I know little of the details of their disciplic line but I know we utilize the same scriptures, except that they also utilize Devi Bhagavata Purana. It is a different line of succession from Chaitanya (than most of us) and I can easily give respect to that. I have a book called ‘Dances of Manipur’ 1989, which is a large beautiful book full of pictures and info about their dances and vaishnava practices.

And Vishnupriya's beloved...

I think that the one does not exclude the other. I see in the scientific description of the development of a Murti the progressive manifestation and/or revelation of the Divine, like in time-lapse photography.

About the influence of Chaitanya on Orissa the historian R.D. Banerjee (History of Orissa,vol I, Prabasi Press, Calcutta 1930, p.330) wrote:
"Suddenly from the beginning of the l6th century a decline set in in the power and prestige of Orissa, with a corresponding decline in the military spirit of the people. The decline is intimately connected with the long residence of the Bengali Vaishnava saint Chaitanya in the country. If we accept only one-tenth of what the Sanskrit and Bengali biographies of the saint state about his influence over Pratiparudra and the people of the country, even then, we must admit that Chaitanya was one of the principal causes of the political decline of the empire and the people of Orissa. Not only that, the acceptance of Vaishnavism, rather Neo-Vaishnavism, was the real cause of the Muslim conquest of Orissa twenty-eight years after the death of Prataparudra."

Food for reflection.

"The origin of Bhoi dynasty and formation of Khurda kingdom can be traced back to those days when the power of Suryavansi Gajapatis declined with the breaking of the Orissan Empire. But all these happened under the force of circumstances. The degradation of administration under the Suryavansi kings were slow and gradual. The first ruler of the dynasty Kapilendra Dev was an able ruler and empire builder. His son and successor Purusottam Dev, though was a great defender of foes, lacked proper vision. He was followed by Prataprudra Dev, who was largely responsible for the downfall of his own empire. He bought peace by selling his freedom. His patronage to Vaishnavism became instrumental for devastation of military power, giving a scope for decline and dissolution. The death of Prataprudra, weak successions to throne, internal squabbles and foreign interventions brought disaster. The first two weak successors were Kalua Dev and Kakharua Dev, who were sons of Prataprudra Dev. Taking advantage of their weakness, Govinda Vidyadhar, the Prime Minister became the de fecto ruler of Orissa. But he was followed by still more weaker rulers, like Chakrapratap, Narasingha and Raghuram, who were killed one
after another due to acquisition of power and treachery of Mukunda Harichandan, Commander of Cuttack Fort. After a political assassination, Mukunda Dev captured the throne. But his authority was challenged by another minister and General, Danardana Vidyadhara. Meanwhile, the Afghan intrusion to Orissa made the situation more critical. However, Mukunda Dev could retain the power. After the death of Mukunda Dev, Ramachandra Dev; son of Danardana emerged as the natural leader and retrieved the lost glory of his father. He founded a new kingdom and a
new dynasty. The dynasty is known as 'Bhoi Dynasty' and the kingdom as 'Khurda Kingdom'. The suitable place that was chosen by Ramachandra Dev-I for his capital was Khurda, which had natural and strategic importance. It was situated in between Puri and Cuttack. During this period, the Khurda kingdom was covering an
extensive area of 13,935 sq. miles that was stretching from river Mahanadi in the North to the borders of Khimidi in the South and from Khandapada Daspalla region in the West to present Jagannath Road in the East. So geographically, it was forming the Gateway between the North and South. It was therefore, during the period of Ramachandra Dev-I that, Khurda kingdom became the largest territorial
entity in Orissa."

From Cultural Profile of the Khurda Kingdom by Saroj Kumar Panda, Orissa Review, May 2005.

Perhaps there is even politics going on in the beginnings of the Gaudiya sect in Puri? Or perhaps the dominance of rustic love over kingship in the teachings of Gaudiya Vaishnavism was really a sign that the people were fed up with aishvarya kingshipness anyway and longed for something else? It would seem from the above that the picture is a little more complicated. King Prataparudra had inherited an already crumbling kingdom and he was attracted towards non kingly rustic Krishna bhakti, and was fondly remembered by Bengali Gaudiyas. We see the devotional king was perhaps too passive and weak in a certain sense and was inclined towards Bengali cultural influence in Orissa. But the kingdom was crumbling anyway due to his fathers legacy, what could he do? He seemed so eager for peace that he stooped low to even buy it and sacrificing kingship privileges too in the process. Is that so bad? Perhaps so from a kingly duty point of view. The crumbling of the Suryavamsi kingship line may well have not only been Prataparudra’s fault, and not merely the fault of Gaudiya Vaishnavism and Chaitanya either, which perhaps came at such a troublesome decline of a Puri kingship lineage, which although crumbling anyway, was destined for another one, which patronised Vaishnavism too.

Anyway I find in Satyaraja’s comparative study, ‘Gaudiya Vaishnavism: Contemporary Scholars…….’ Chapter; The Bengal of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, by Richard Eaton, a general tenor that Islamic incursions were not simply based on Islamic fanaticism but also Islamic and Hindu alliances of rival factions which were usually Vaishnavism friendly. Maybe to some Vaishnavs an Islamic good rule is better than say a hostile to Vaishnavism Shakta ruler for instance. Perhaps Vaishnavism adapts to whichever rule is around which serves its purpose so it can get on with its esoteric practises. The general tenor of the Prataparudradev biog within Gaudiya biogs is one of a king whose interest in rule, power and kingdom becomes lesser due to meeting Chaitanya and Chaitanya himself was even reluctant to at first go near the worldly king. So in a sense the wordly power crumbled and the spiritual increased. And we do see that that worldly rule does succeed in the end over Islamic rule anyway so from the Indian nationalist position, things were not so bad in the end after the Afghan incursion associated with Bengal. But maybe I am wrong in this charitable interpretation? Maybe Chaitanya Vaishnavism was instrumental in the dissolution of wordly power centered in Puri? But maybe Jagannatha used this because he was fed up with too much aishvarya?


In regards to the aboriginal shamanic and Shaivite past of Jagannatha we have the view found in Bidyut Lata Ray’s Jagannatha Cult : Origin, Rituals, Festivals, Religion and Philosophy ( A Critical Study of Sthala Purana ‘Niladri Mahodayam’).


Lata Ray mentions how;

“Inscriptional and archeological evidence and the contemporary rituals in the hinterland of Puri and within the Jagannatha cult also give Narasimha a dominant role in the Vaishnava typology of Hinduization and consequently in the early development of Jagannath Cult. For a different view, however, H.V. Stientencron who contends that none of the Madhava images of the Praci valley is older than 10th century and who advocates in the favour of the Saiva component of the evolution of Lord Jagannath. He has emphasised on the Ekapada Bhairava images of Orissa as the origin of the Lord. Obviously, Narasimha’s role as a predecessor of Jagannatha is contested with reference to the Ekapada Bhairava.”

“The Jagannath figure was developed from the identification of a tribal deity represented through a wooden post with Narasimha. Narasimha’s popular iconography, a head with arms, was added to the aboriginal post. The original cult which was developed from and belonged to that tribal substratum practises the rituals and renew the wooden images (Navakalevara ceremony) with the use of Mantraraja – Nrsimha-Mantra. The Purusottama-Mahatmyam of Skanda Purana speaks, “There has never been nor will ever be a mantra more effective than this. Worshipped with this mantra, Vishnu is immediately pleased.” The Niladri Mahodayam, with the same view, narrates that Brahma, while consecrating the wooden images, saw the god in his Narasimha form…….With the first wave of Vaishnavism in Orissa, the worship of Narasimha was acknowledged by Saivism. The Simhanatha temple is an early example of such an integrated worship in Orissa. Narasimha, namely a figure with a lion head, is depicted as being in reality Siva, holding a trident and associated with a tribal cult. Narasimha was not only incorporated into Saivism, but also associated with Bhairava.” Introduction, pages 18 and 19.

She indicates there is more to Jagannatha’s composite origins than only Bhairava-ised aboriginal shamanic and tribal traditions. She indicates that Jagannatha arose out of a Narasimha-Bhairava-ised aboriginal post-pillar cult instead. Thus the Jagannatha Deity’s roots are from an eclectic fusion of Vaishnavism and Shaivism eclectically blending with tribal shamanic pillar-post worship.

Another interesting thing found within the pages of Lata Ray’s work is;

“Thus, different scholars have opined differently regarding the origin and development of the Jagannatha-triad and the cult as a whole. Basing on the historical background of the cult, may of them have endeavoured to trace it down to its origin. They have completely overlooked the vast field of puranic material as well as the traditional legends with a clue that these sources provide unscientific evidences.” (preface page vii).

She aims, along with another scholar who preceeded her, Dr G. N. Mahapatra (whose focus was primarily on the Purusottama-Ksetra-Mahatmyam of the Skanda Purana) to correct this bias. Is this that same old bias of the British and European raj like scholarship which dismisses the puranas as myths legends and exaggerated accounts (in a negative sense) in university established Jagannath scholarship, even up to 1998 when Lata’s book was first published?

Here is an interesting article on Orissan tribes Click to view attachment


I also mentioned how the residents of Puri are pious ganja smokers. Check this one;

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Those also intersted in Pancha sakhas may find this of interest too;

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As a curious side line, the Jagannatha cult has its oracular systems too;

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I am familar with the Mahima Dharma site and have some of it copied on files in my computer. they seem a bit anti Deity Murti, anti God as form and even Jagannatha as an inner visualisation form leading to something higher. Interesting however. I am also in the process of getting the Kulke, Tripathi and Eschmann sources through my library too. Cheers any way Angrezi.

The Sicily connection is mentioned in serious scholarly works on Puri Temple. It is in Lata's book mentioned before, and it is in some of the Orissa Review articles, I cannot remember. It was not part of some general universal list of all things resembling Jagannatha to become some popular one religion under us scam. Out of all places in India where Ratha Yatra is named to have taken place, Sicily is mentioned and no other country around the world. I will look into this more. Who knows, maybe there was a Jagannatha worshipping people who emigrated in times past?

Babu, If American Indians are ofended by suggesting their culture was linked with ancient India, then Asian Indians would be offended that their culture is from elsewhere too? Maybe it is wrong to be offended in the first place and take insults. Better to be open to historical truth. Sounds like certain American Indians are nationalists. Not all shamanic cultures and old ways are good too, there was war mongering, human sacrifice and all types going on there too as it is in city cultures (mind you city cultures tend to be the most greedy for land though).

There are also some interesting views in regards to the position of Krishna and Jagannatha. As Chaitanya (or his sucessors) saw Jagannath as an incomplete Jagannatha, Divakaradasa’s Jagannatha Caritamrta presents Krishna as the sixteenth part of Lord Jagannatha. This is mentioned in Lata Ray’s Jagannatha Cult. Also Jagannatha is also seen as the originator of Vishnu, in the same way but different to those who see Krishna as the originator of Vishnu. Thus in these bhakti traditions Jagannatha is the source of Vishnu and through Vishnu, Jagannatha incarnates into the various avatars of yugas. An interesting difference and also similarity and alternative to the positing of a source of Vishnu (within Vishnu and higher) within not only the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition but also the Nimbarka and this other Orissan version.




Also interesting is how Jagannatha is accompanied by sunya, the void as Krishna (I may be wrong and am speculating from lack of resources) is accompanied by Brahman. This however would be wrong if Jagannatha is a manifestation of sunya as some vedantins see Krishna as a manifestation of Brahman. But what of the inverse?

And what is the subtle differences between the sunya void and the impersonal Brahman? This surely would be a fascinating study. Sunya as the body rays of a Jagannatha, the source of all incarnations, including Krishna. This would be an alternative on the Krishna who is molten gold and has as His body rays Brahman tradition. Or is it just Brahman becomes Krishna, the incarnation of Vishnu as Sunya becomes Jagannatha, but with subtle differences in regards to realism and illusion?


My Reflections on Jagannath History; (inspired by Ganja-natha!)

There is more to the Jagannatha cult than the history of the Deities. It is also the history of philosophies, concepts and terminologies, rituals, categories, architectural symbolism, stories etc etc, which have wrapped themselves around this beautiful figure. Some older and some younger, ancient and modern, historical and contemporary. And it is also the dimensions of the temple and associated temples, groundplans, other Deities interconnected and all their respective branches attracted to their forms too. It is also the history of a people, not to mention soma-haoma alchemical cooking recipes surviving, along with oracular tools and other quaint curious traditions of storytelling laced with astrology, ‘myth’ and history, both exaggerated and also alchemically refined in the base matter of story telling. The language that speaks the tying together of the heavens, the earths, astrology, myth, symbol, number and history is usually either passed off as idle mythmaking, exaggeration (although this does exist too), primitive history with lack of scientific insight, mere politically motivated design of control, etc etc. Thus the modernist view imposes on the past and misunderstands its riddles of wisdom, its reasons behind its writings, its techniques. These become forgotton even by the tradition which preserves and sometimes inadvertently breathes new life into them and resurrects them in new climes and times, resonant and in harmony with what they once were.

This is all a natural path or dance, where in a sense mundane history has no part to play. It is fulfilled in such a dance of schemes and themes in the drama of not just cold calculating minds, but also deft minds dancing in bliss in the joy of truth, making truth of the past beautiful, joyful, blissful, ananda, and teachings of love within the background of the heavens and the earth and all their categories and techniques of measure, balance and harmony. I think that Jagannatha embodies this way of truth manifesting through the ages and He has inspired me to write this and His tradition seems to embody this principle of ongoing unfolding truth through all the ages.

And finally as a curious aside, Chaitanya may well have been simply a bhakta in the tradition of Sridhar Swami of Puri, a bhakti which harmonises with Advaita to a certain degree. But if this is so Chaitanya's bhakti version did not survive, but Sridhar's bhakti of Puri did survive elsewhere;

Srimanta Foundation;
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Jaya Jagannatha.
Om Shanti.

Re; softbrain's post. I have read this before, and this type of opinion before. The same is said for emperor Ashok falling under the nonviolent influence of Buddhism and paving the way for foreign domination in later centuries. Many Indian intellectuals try to rationalize why India fell to so many foreign forces (especially during British occupation). That is not to say there is no truth in these opinions tho.

Re: dayalu's post -Dr. Sanyal's writing consistintly gives me a headache in that he can write a lot of high sounding stuff (annoying) without saying much.
In general religionists are wary of mundane history as they themselves aren't usually very conversant in it , and it can stand to challenge certain assumptions propagated by them to their followers. Yes, of course the Lord of the universe is transcendental, yet it doesnt change the fact that the deity was worshiped as different entities over the centuries. Rather I think it is a glorification of Jagannath that he was worshiped as Shiva, 'the void', etc. Its only the sectarians who want to claim (ideological if not legal) 'rights' over ancient deities such as this, and discount history to show their own supposed legitimacy and exclusivity. I would like to have seen BSS happily worship Jagannath along side Advaitists and Shaivas in a spirit that Jagannath is really the lord of the universe.

There is some evidence also that other famous and very ancient deities such as Balaji and Vitthalnathji were also worshiped as other beings before they were established as Vishnu. One can assume there is much about Indian history that cannot be fully determined as there were presumably many exclusively oral traditions that died out, as well as book burnings etc. when a certain sect became dominant.

Good points.
Jaya Ekapada Bhairava!

Dharmaraja-ji, another couple of books for your list:
1
2

Thanks Dharmaraja for all the material. A few remarks.
With "food for reflection" I simply meant that it seems difficult to determine how to rule a country, if you're militaristic you can keep people out and if you're pacifistic the muslims will overrun you. From your material I understand that in Orissa they chose the first option:

"The lifestyle of the youth of traditional families of Puri are shaped considerably by such youth organisations. With the commencement of winter, the Sahi youth go to Jaga for massage, wrestling and other physical exercise. During such period they are refrained from taking any intoxication and observe complete celibacy (Brahmacharya). Thus Puri's traditional youth maintain a muscular and well-built body. Jagas also impart musical lesson particularly Odissi, Chhanda, Champu etc. with Mrudangam. Usually collective feasts are arranged in such Jagas, which is one of the major attractions to participate in Jaga activities. Apparently such organisations have been set up as military mechanism against invaders."

***
Another quote: "Pancha means five and sakhaa means friends -The great spiritual
leader and naamayogi avataar Chaitanya Mahaaprabhu has referred to
these five of his disciples as Panchasakhaa and stated that the
panchasakhaa are like his pancha-atma, i.e., five souls
(atmaa-tatva) and are in no way lesser than some of the avataars of
Vishnu."
Do you know what pancha-atma means? Krishna is once referred to as Chatur-atma, four souls in Mahabharata.

***
"Divakaradasa’s Jagannatha Caritamrta presents Krishna as the sixteenth part of Lord Jagannatha".
This reminded me of Kali Santarana Upanishad: "Narada asked Brahma: "What is the name ?" To which Hiranyagarbha (Brahma) replied thus:
1. Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
2. These sixteen names (words) are destructive of the evil effects of Kali. No better means than this is to be seen in all the Vedas.
These (sixteen names) destroy the Avarana (or the centripetal force which produces the sense of individuality) of Jiva surrounded by the sixteen Kalâ’s (rays). Then like the sphere of the sun which shines fully after the clouds (screening it) disperse, Parabrahman (alone) shines."

Last remark: in the story about the taamra pothi oracle the term shunya (void) is also used, could that be similar to akasha like in the akasha chronicles?

Another book for your birthday list could be The Alchemical Body by David Gordon White.

I guess it could also be taken as a reference to the catur-vyUha, but generally cAturAtma (as in Vishnusahasra nama) is taken to mean 'clever or ingenious soul'. I think Caitanya (in the passage given) was possibly using 'panchatma' as a term of endearment rather than as a ontological statement, but I don't know.

The whole subject of the panch sakhas is interesting and was brought up by jijaji before on GD some time ago. It seems to be a case in which the victors (the Bengali followers) wrote the more widely accepted history.

in essence, everyone's opinion is correct because god or jaganatha is whatever we make him/her/it to be

Just read your understated blog; me--smug?

Highly recommended reading and so far it's free

this may be politically motivated a little but its a fun read, http://www.ambedkar.org/Tirupati/Tirupati.pdf

Thank you Bhaktavasya!






(P.S. I'll send the $30 for the plug, as arranged.)

Thanks, Angrezi, for the book by Jamanadas.

A summary of the Buddhist theory is given by Shashibhusan Dasguta, Obscure Religious Cults, KLM, 3rd ed. 1969, pp 276-7:

Sunyata and Karuna, transformed as Prajna and Upaya, were held very important in Tantric Buddhism, and a tendency was manifest to interpret this Prajna and Upaya as static and dynamic, or negative and positive, as female and male, and so on. Gradually the three jewels Buddha, Dharma and Sangha came to be interpreted in terms of Prajna, Upaya and the world produced by them ; Upaya as the male principle was identified with Buddha, and necessarily Dharma became Prajna or the female principle and Sangha came to be interpreted as phenomenal world which is produced through the union of Prajna and Upaya. Some scholars maintain that these transformed forms of the three jewels are still now preserved in the Jagannatha temple of Puri. There the two male figures, with a female figure in the middle, widely known in their Hinduised nomenclature as Jagannatha and Balarama with the image of Subhadra in the middle, are in all probability the representations of the three jewels of Buddha, Dharma and Sangha transformed as Upaya, Prajna and their son, i.e., the phenomenal world. In the esoteric Buddhist literature the epithet Jagannatha (i.e., the lord of the world) is widely used before Buddha or rather the Lord Supreme, and it is also a well-known adjective used before the Lord Supreme of the Hindus,—and thus through the medium of the epithet Jagannatha, the first of the three jewels could very easily be Hinduised and the Hinduisation of the other two was but a matter of course.
This theory of the transformation of Buddha, the first jewel of the Buddhists, into Jagannatha (and later on frankly conceived as Krsna) has its corroboration in the tradition of the literature of the Dharma cult. Jayadeva, the famous Vaisnava lyric poet, described Buddha as the ninth incarnation of Visnu ; and in the literature of the Dharma cult we find in connection with the description of the incarnations of God that in the ninth incarnation God was born as Jagannatha, who is none but lord Buddha, and he settled his residence on the sea-coast, where he has relieved the whole world by distributing to all (irrespective of caste and creed) his Prasada (i.e. food offered to God and supposed to be accepted by him.)1 In another place we find that in this incarnation of Jagannatha the lord revealed himself to the Hindus and Muslims, who were all united together in his (i.e. Jagannatha's) place, and in the country of Gauda (i.e. in Bengal) he has revealed himself as the Dharma-raja.2

1 Dharma-puja-vidhana, pp. 206-207 ; also p. 208. See also Govinda-vijaya of Syama-das, Vangavasi-edition, p. 3.
It may be pointed out here that in the ten incarnation of Visnu, inscribed on the gateway of the temple of Jagannatha in Puri, Buddha, the ninth incarnation, has been replaced by Jagannatha.
2 Dharma-puja-vidhana, pp. 214-15.

certainly the fact that so many totems from aboriginals the world over look like jaganatha is proof to his universality

That's right, so we might as well sing a little song for Jagannath to celebrate that fact.

thanks for the vid,

can anyone answer why polyester clinging to the skin is so popular in the hot humid tropical climate of india as the man in the back right is wearing that i see so many indian men are garbed as such? women too aren't too far behind in adorning themselves with polyester

Because it is cheaper than silk and looks likesilk - well at least that was the explanation I was given - oh and that cotton is for peasants.....

its safer for doing ashvamedhas and fire sacrifices because it doesn't burn but melts slowly

indian women i believe, like the slathered sweaty look and so this type of dress

Softbrain, I don’t think that it was simply Chaitanya and Parataparudradev who contributed to the political disintegration of the kingdom, as the author you originally quoted suggests. This is a subjective interpretation based on retrospection and with a modernist projection onto the more nuanced and complex past. If there is any truth in it, it would be that Chaitanya and Prataparudradev were only a part of the process, which had been going on earlier, and was part of a wider India, and was largely due to more complex patterns, which they were a part. I don’t think the author who wrote such opinions in regards to Prataparudra and Caitanya took other scholarly opinions into consideration. Maybe I am wrong I am not an expert. Here are some other opinions along these lines but different.

“Popularity of Caitanya, royal patronage, the swelling number of his caste-oblivious followers mingling with each other in ecstatic recitations (Sankirtana), the consequent edge of the sect and the king over the priestly monopoly of the cult till then, antagonised with the priests. They started reviving the Indradyumna episode (cited elsewhere) to the discomfiture of Prataparudra Deva.
“The circumstances of Caitanya’s death are still shrouded in mystery. According to one belief, he was killed by the priests of Puri who were envious of him and wanted to eliminate him. [unfortunately our author does not mention this source- *my words] According to Jayananda, Caitanya was dancing before Jagannath’s chariot when he was hit by a stone. He was then taken to Tota Gopinath where he passed away…..Dr. Jayadeva Mukherjee also thinks that he was murdered as a result of ‘Smarta’ opposition to Raganuga Bhakti of Caitanya sect and as a consequence of the confrontation between Govinda Vidyadhar (Smarta) and Prataparudra (Caitanyite)…..There is also no historical substantiation of R.D. Bannerjee’s allegation that Caitanya’s preponderant influence on the king even in military and administrative matters of the state had made him an object of envy, though Caitanya misguided the king to attack the south and thereby spare the Sultan of Bengal.”

Himanshu Patnaik pg 52 in Preachers Reformers and Growth of Sects in Lord Jagannath His Temple Cult and Festivals (a highly readable and pleasantly wrote overview of the Jagannatha traditions and histories). Unfortunately there is no further elaboration on all this.


“….Rupa Goswami was none other than Dabir Khan who had been a minister of Sultan Hussain Shah of Bengal before his conversion. There is no reason to believe in the assertion of some scholars that because of Rupa Goswami and Caitanya, the Bengal Sultan abandoned his ‘dream’ of conquering Orissa. Similarly too, there is no evidence to show that Caitanya prevailed on Gajapati Prataparudra to refrain from attacking Bengal and attack the south instead.” Pg 49 of the above named chapter and book.

But unfortunately the author does not go into detail about the absence of evidence all this.

“Caitanya was not interested in politics. He spent his time in adoration of Krsna. Pratapa Rudra Deva as a religious individual was attracted towards caitanya’s divine personality. But, at the same time, the king did not give up his eclectic outlook. Though a Vaishnava, he made a land grant for the worship of Durga and we learn from Balarama Dasa and Acutyananda Dasa that the king took also active interest in the esoteric philosophy of the Orissan school of Vaisnavism.”

P Mukherjee ‘Caitanya in Orissa’ in The Cult of Jagannath and the Regional Tradition of Orissa, Eschmann, Kulke and Tripathy.

Perhaps what we are dealing with is the desire of a later Gaudiya Vaishnavism and scholarship to associate individuals and sectors of society otherwise tangentially linked to Caitanya as much more directly involved. Or perhaps it is all a bit like saying Prabhupada was involved with the business history and politics within Ford Motors because Ambarish das was a prominent disciple involved with his grand Mayapur project, although to some degree we can expect a Prabhupada influence in Ambarish which might have spilled out into his position within Ford Motors, but not one so great as to cause significant changes?

Despite the involvement of Prataparudra with Chaitanya it would seem Caitanya kept his distance and was on another plateau entirely outside of politics and kingship. This would actually seem the tenor of the GV tradition.

Anyway I guess there are militaristic and pacifist views throughout Orissa’s traditions of kingship, monarchy and politics. The devotional current, which Chaitanya came to be a personification of, was part of a wider phenomena in my opinion.

Some even argue that Chaitanya was false reformer and was part of a brahminical conspiracy to scoop up rebels back to the Vedic fold; Click to view attachment

Mundane political history is only a part and can never suss the inner intents and spiritual and random higher will which works within them. It can only understand the outer body-mind-motive or trends of events but this is not all. Nevertheless mundane history, like mundane astrology, oracular uses etc do play a part also in preserving heritage and traditions too. It is simply not the only version of witnessing the truths of the past. Neither do I agree however in the extreme and fundamentalist attack on rationality and mundane history manner found in certain religious writings also. Mundane history, like logic and evidences within the Indian philosophical traditions has its place and is even sometimes yoked to religious traditions rather than amputated from them. Even Tolkien and CS Lewis were a part of literay tradition which accepted that the myths of old were historical myths of truth, and that simple mundane history and literary criticism as a tool for deciphering the past, especially religions, was an incomplete approach and sometimes hostile to the inner spirit of such traditions too. A great poetical epic should simply be enjoyed as it is sometimes and not simply picked apart. To come close to an authors intent is to also experience the joy which he or she has beautifully woven around a theme, spiritual, philosophical, historical. Thus it is not simply religious fundamentalists averse to critical modernistic notions of the past, but also literary scholars too, besides certain types of historians. In one sense Bhaktivedanta and Bhaktisiddhanta were right in condemning mundane historians who were licking the outer bottle and not tasting the honey, but they took it too far in their over zeal and desire to rescue the Puranas from the derision of a dry academia which usually poo pooed ‘myth’ and ‘idle tales’ of barbarians etc etc.

In reply to the Pancha Atma, I suppose there are many groupings of panchas, as well as saptas, ashtas etc etc. I personally feel that there may be a link between the Pancha Tattva conception and this Pancha Atma, the Gaudiya Pancha Tattva on a devotional focused level, the Pancha Atma-Sakha on a devotional mixed with esoteric knowledge and wisdom jnana level. Perhaps there is an esoteric level within the Pancha Tattva tradition (certain branches of Gaudiya Vaishnavism?) which uses this as a recruiting ground for the deeper levels of the Pancha Sakha levels or vice versa? Perhaps two branches of a Pancha Puri tradition which pre dated both and which emphasised various different aspects?

It would seem that around the Pothi traditions that Baba Buddhanath belonged to associated with Achutyananda Das, it is common to refer to the Pancha Sakhas as Pancha Atmas. Where this originates I do not know.

Here is my ‘speculation’. Pancha, of five, is in Mahabharata in the five Pandavas and would also be elsewhere it would seem. Five is also four elements and ether-akasha. In these cases (Pancha- Atma- Sakha- Tattva) would seem to refer to the more subtle categories of soul and spirit which are above and within the Pancha Bhuta elements. Orissa does have a focus on Pancha;

“The concept of Panchadevata was prevelant in Orissa since ancient times. And accordingly Orissa was divided into five kshetras, i.e., Sakti Ksetra (Biraja-Jajpur), Vishnu Ksetra (Puri), Siva Ksetra (Bhubaneshwar), Arka Ksetra (Candrabhaga Konark) and Mahavinayak Ksetra (Candikhol).”

Lord Jagannatha His Temple Cult and Festivals by Himanshu. S. Patnaik pg 76.

Maybe Pancha Sakha-Tattva are personifications of these five places and traditions, passing on secret traditions of these places in personified characters? Or historical individuals and lineages represented them on different levels?

Also you have Jagannatha, Balabhadra, Subhadra, Sudarshan and a fifth principle (ratna vedi upon which they are seated? Nrsimha which from which they are sourced in certain traditions? Daru Brahman, the log from which the emerged. 4 in 1. Pancha-5.

I suppose there are many categories of five in the Jagannatha tradition of Buddhist, Jain, Shaivite, Vaishnava, Shakta, which are also five mainstream branches of the Puri amalgam.

5 of course is an important number within Indian traditions generally too.


I like the link to 16 kalas and the maha mantra. Is there any English translation of the Jagannatha Caritamrta I wonder?

What are the akasha chronicles? I would think that Shunya is above akasha if akasha is ether, I don’t know. I would certainly think oracular scripts are on the plane of Akasha however. You may find more on the pothi oracles of Orissa, which are associated with the Panch Sakhas in a site associated with Nancy C Much Ross and Manamohan Mahapatra. Here are some photos and pages from there; Click to view attachment
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In regards to the book on Alchemy by David Gordon White it is one I havn’t read it and will get round to do so some time, but I would love to see any alchemical traditions specific to the Jagannatha tradition. Another thing I am searching for is any Thomasite Christian links with Orissa specifically too. Thomasite Christians were usually based in south India, the land where the bhakti renaissances originated in modern times (Alvars, Ramanuja, Madhbacarya etc etc). But they lived elsewhere in India too. They were also associated with the gold trade (as the Chaitanya tradition in was also- which is Prabhupada’s Gaudiya family ancestry) and one would think that this had links with Indian alchemical traditions?

I do have a number of sources on Indian alchemy in general and specific in the various translations and overviews of different scholars in Tantra in Practise; ed David Gordon White, Princeton Uni Press, sections in books on alchemy in general around the world and the odd article found on internet. I sometimes think whether or not Chaitanya, the golden avatar, is a figure for esoteric alchemical cult of Puri in symbolic form or at least some of the Gaudiya tradition is. They certainly use alchemical terminologies (remember alchemy is not just mundane metals and herbs etc-although it is that too- we see this in Pancha Sakha traditions more-but is also a spiritual path too) in Gaudiya Vaishnava traditions. There is the Cintami touchstone and the stages of devotion mirroring stages of alchemy. Rasa is also the name for the alchemical mercury, the analogies of sugar making as the stages of devotion mirrors alchemy too. Gaudiya Vaishnava Sahajiyas more commonly use alchemical traditions but also those of Jagannatha Das of the Pancha Sakhas, the Ayurveda herbalism and healing traditions associated with Achutyananda’s Pothi traditions, and also even the mainstream Gaudiya branches- all use alchemical terminologies and even practises within their traditions. Chaitanay is gold rasa, hmn…?

Of interest also is the lineage of today coming from one of the Pancha Sakhas, Achutyananda Das, the Vedic astrological ashram, the Jagannatha Centre. They have a wonderful account of Chaitanya lila in the light of Chaitanya’s birthchart. It made me think whether or not the story of Chaitanya is a personification of the astrological forces at the particular time period he is said to have ‘historically’ existed and how these impacted on certain historical traditions and peoples and regions- as above so below? Thus the story of Chaitanya is historically true in a way in which we do not expect in the west!

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I have just got the following books from my local library through inter library loan service;

Eschmann, Kulke and Tripathi’s The Cult of Jagannath and the Regional Tradition of Orissa.
Communication With God- The Daily Puja Ceremony in the Jagannatha Temple by Gaya Charan Tripathi.
Blue Hill- Hymns to Lord Jagannatha by Subas Pani.
Lord Jagannatha- His Temple Cult and Festivals by Himashu Patnaik.

They dropped in all of a sudden at the same time and I have a month with them, some may be renewed, others not, all depending if someone else wants them also elsewhere. At the same time I am working my way slowly through Bidyut Lata Ray’s study Jagannatha Cult, Origin Rituals, Festivals, Religion and Philosophy (A Critical Study of Sthala Purana. ‘Niladri Mahodayam’) and Marglin’s Wives of the God King (which I have already briefly read a year or so ago). These had arrived earlier. Thus a hefty read indeed. Luckily I am in the process of setting up a scanner to my computer too.

Thanks Aran for the book recommendation! I was in the process of trying to buy these books but my bank card is not accepted by them for payment (solo-cirrus-maestro). The other ways of paying are too complicated or too expensive. I wonder where else I would get them? Any good UK suppliers for books from India? But the way it is looking on interlibrary loans, the field looks good although that Sunya Purusha Baudha Vaishnava book does look quite tasty and this may be obtainable through the library.

Some Jagannatha Buddhist stuff;

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And for the curious polyester aside;

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kudos on the research dharmaraja, nice read!

Yes, I think you're right, I did some more checking and I found this summary, it is from N.K. Sahu (ed.), History of Orissa, 1956, pp.386-7:

"After this period of infamous defeats and territorial losses, Prataparudra ruled for a long period of twenty years, and this period, which is remarkable in history owing to the activities of Sri Chaitanya and the Five-Associates, was singularly quiet and glorious. That the Gajapati was not an effete ruler is known from the fact that Orissa was absolutely peaceful and enormously prosperous in this period, and there is no evidence of any other external or internal troubles during these long twenty years of his rule. The period witnessed the splendid achievements in religion and culture and the catholic Gajapati actively patronised the intellectual movements by his unsparing liberality. Apart from the Five-Associates, a large band of scholars, philosophers and litterateurs flourished by this time.
[...]
"But inspite of this cultural glow, Orissa politically was fast decaying. Prataparudra's defeat at the hands of Krishnadeva Raya and Quli Qutb may be said to be the beginning of this political decay and during the time of the Gajapati the territorial limits of Orissa sank back to almost those of the later Ganga period. The cause of this decline is attributed by scholars to the religious influence of Sri Chaitanya over the people of Orissa in general and Gajapati Prataparudra in particular. But it should be remembered that although Sri Chaitanya visited Orissa early in 1510 A.D., he did not settle down here till 1512, and that his meeting with Prataparudra took place sometimes in 1513 A.D., when the latter had already encountered a series of reverses in his war against Krsnadeva Raya. It cannot, however, be denied that Sri Chaitanya and the Five-Associates cast a vigorous influence upon the socio-religious life of the people by this time, but the act of making this influence responsible for the humiliating defeats of the Gajapati is not based on critical reasoning. The Jagannatha consciousness that inspired the Orissan warriors to undertake successful campaigns under Kapilendra and Purusottamadeva, cannot be said to have damped their martial spirit under Prataprudra, and moreover, there is very little reliable evidence regarding the interference of Sri Chaitanya and the Five-Associates in the military and political affairs of the State, with which they were least concerned.

"R. D. Banerji places uncritical reliance on some Gaudiya works like, Chaitanya Charitamrta, Chaitanya Bhagavata and Chaitanya Mangala, which are prone to exaggerate the influence of Sri Chaitanya on Prataparudradeva. It may be pointed out that nowhere in any of his inscriptions, which are so numerous and in any of his literary works Prataprudra speaks of Sri Chaitanya as his Guru, and that contemporary literature, either Sanskrit, Oriya, or Bengali, has not declared Sri Chaintanya a royal preceptor. On the other hand we know definitely that Kavidindima Jivadevacharya the court poet, was the royal Guru (Srijeebah Kabidindimo nripaguruh: RASB Skt. Cat. VII. P. 277; Rajguru jeebadevacharya birachite Ibid pp. 277-78). The Gajapati is found saluting and invoking Lord Jagannath as his Master, and thus the claim of the Gaudiya writers of a later generation regarding the spiritual relation of Sri Chaitanya and Prataparudradeva requires revaluation.

"P. Mukherjee observes that the strength of Orissa had been sapped by the wars of aggrandisement waged by Kapilendra and Purusottama, and that the people who plundered the wealth of the subjugated territories began rolling in luxury and developed an aversion to military pursuits. The opinion of Mukherjee is supported by the fact that the Orissan soldiers put very weak defence even for such strategic places as Kondavidu and Kondapalle, and also that Prataprudra in his fight against Krishnadeva Raya had to hire Muslim mercenaries to protect his disrupting empire. The internal dissensions of Orissa may also be counted as an important factor of her decline, and attention may be drawn in this connection to the treacherous conduct of the minister Govinda Vidyadhara, who openly sided with the enemies during the war of the Gajapati against the Sultan of Bengal in 1509 A.D. Over and above this, it may be said that Krisnadeva Raya the veteran enemy of Orissa was one of the most powerful emperors in the history of India, and Prataprudra, who had not the calibre of a Kapilendra, and who was then faced with grave dangers both from outside and inside, was naturally incapable of resisting his determined invasion. We are, thus, disposed to believe that Sri Chaitanya and the Five-Associates can in no way be blamed for the decisive defeat of the Gajapati at the hands of the mighty Tuluva emperor, and that the ultimate decline of Orissa was more due to political than religious causes."



I like Tantra in Practice; edited by David Gordon White, because it contains the complete translation by Glen A. Hayes of the Sahajiya text Necklace of Immortality, Amritaratnâvalî by Mukunda-das, disciple of Krishnadas Kaviraj Goswami.

In regard your remark about the five Pandava's I would like to point out that esoterically the five gods who incarnated as the 5 Pandava's were before that 5 Indra's (=5 indriyani's, 5 senses?), thus:

Yudhishthira = Dharma = Vishvabhuk Indra
Bhima = Vayu = Bhutadhaman Indra
Sahadev = Ashwin 1 = Sivi Indra
Nakula = Ashwin 2 = Santi Indra
Arjuna = Indra = Tejasvin Indra
(of this I can't find the source anymore, it is only in my notes)

The Akasha or Akashic Chronicles (akasha is the 5th Kosmic element, the fifth essence, the 'quintessence', also Mula-prakriti, the Stoics called it AEther, which is not the ether of 19th century science) are mentioned in theosophical and anthroposophical texts as the cosmic spirit-substance, the reservoir of Being and beings and the Record of all acts of all beings and which can be 'read' or 'seen' through clairvoyance and can as such be the source of spiritual science.
Those records are kept by entities called the Lipika's who are the "karmic Recorders or Annalists, who impress on the (to us) invisible tablets of Astral Light, 'the great picture-gallery of eternity', a faithful record of every act, and even thought, of man [and all other entities], of all that was, is, or ever will be, in the phenomenal Universe" (H.P.Blavatsky).
Maybe another word for the collective unconscious?

Thanks for the additional info and your thoughts on them.

'Tantra in Practice' is an excellent book

It's a pity you can't use Exotic India, they're so efficient, and easy to deal with. However...you could try either:

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fax: 44/171-636-1096

And, if even these fail to give satisfaction - Amazon (8 used and new).

I would like to know if anyone here knows if the Acyutanada who was one of the Panca Sakhas was the alleged founder of the astrological lineage that Sanjaya Rath propounds. From what I have gathered, such appears to be the case.

There are several ways of looking at the correspondences following the dictum As above - so below. One is the sacred geography correspondence you mention with 5 ksetra's or here an illustration from theosophical source about Palestine, from D.E. Grove, The Mystery Teaching of the Bible 1962, (I only have the dutch translation so I had to pencil in some words):

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Another approach is the neurological correspondence, to find the Gods literally inside your nervous system. Here an illustration from V.G. Rele, Human Mind Power, The Secrets of the Vedic Gods, 1st ed 1931, 2nd ed. Taraporevala, Bombay, 1983:

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after reading some of the links posted by Dharmaraj , I have to say that the deity worshiped as Jagannath was likely there before Jainism and Buddhism were even conceived. There are some similarities to the modern cult and those religions added certain elements over the years, but I certainly don't buy that the temple/deity (ies) was originally a Jain or Buddhist tirtha. Where are the other examples of deities worshiped of the respective 'tri-ratna' ? There isn't any I know of, at least in Buddhism, Jainism i'm not sure.

I don't think that hardly anybody holds the opinion that the murti's in Puri started out as Buddhist murti's. On the way from the Adivasi deity of the Gonds to hindu Murti's buddhists probably have influenced there, and only there, the formations of these murti's (or, from another point of view, at least were partly instrumental in Their gradual revelation/manifestation).

Buddhists see the tri-ratna in the three statues of Amitabha, Avalokateshvara and Maitreya Buddha.

yes thats true, i was gettingg confused over the different timeline theories. why doesn'ty one of our members try and sneak in to find out if the Buddhas tooth is in there. thanks for the Buddhist info too

I know this thread is about Jagganatha, but I want to give my differing opinion of Prof. Sanyal.
There was a recording from 1981 in February, Ramesvara Swami questioned Sridhara Maharaja concerning Brahma Samhita; that Siddhanta Saraswati had published it. Sridhara Maharaja said he had not published it and Ramesvara became a little bit challenging saying they had the book in his hand and that he had in fact published it. It turned out, according to SM, that perhaps all of the English writings attributed to Saraswati Thakur were Sanyal’s rendering into English his guru’s speeches, other writings and concepts. He had full authority to do it we were told. Later that year the term ‘we have been given this much to know’ was indicated to myself and Sagar (Aksayananda) by Sridhara Maharaja regarding Sanyal. I like to study his fairly limited writings with an Oxford dictionary at hand to get the different older meanings of the archaic words he used. Although he is at first a difficult read, he ultimately gets his points across, and he does say much according to some, and it never really gave me a headache!

yes, I had heard this first from jijaji regarding Sanyal's writings being attributed to BSS. I'm pretty well read in Prabhupada's comments, writings etc. and though I can't quote (and its been a while) he was certainly leading people to believe they were in fact the words of BSS, though I have generally, since my blooping, accepted BRSM as being better versed in the tradition and GM history than any other successors.

The headache thing was an exaggeration; as a squeaky clean new bhakta I thought the Brahma samhita commentary was some kind of divinely channeled super esoteric knowledge. Now I read it and i think think the guy was a little pompous and the same thing could have been said in simple english, though that would have lost the 'authoritative' and somewhat intimidating tone I think Sanyal was going for.

I really relate to that; the Brahma Samhita with that commentary was my conversion to GV! and I still like it.

Yep, I don't know about all the writings, but Brahma Samhita was Sanyal's doing, his rendition of Bhaktivinoda's commentary. He had full authority but wasn't given full credit. In the lengthy and flowery-worded Foreword of the original BS edition from 1932, the relevant passage is as follows:

"The publisher is carried away to the realm of gratitude when his stores of publication are scrutinised. Thakur Bhaktivinoda had given an elucidatory purport of the conception of the Most Sublime Fountain-Head of all entities in Bengali, and one of his devout followers has rendered that into English for propagatory purpose. Thanks would be pouring to Tridandisvami Bhakti Pradeep Teertha and Professor N.K. Sanyal, M.A. of Ravenshaw College, Cuttack, who have given facility to help the readers."

Who would gather, from this, that it was Sanyal who made the translation? Not ACBS, that's for sure. He maintained that the whole BS commentary was the work of his guru, Bhaktisiddhanta. Probably in part because the Foreword in question isn't clear on Bhaktivinoda being the original source either. Bhaktivinoda is said to have "given an elucidatory purport." But on the front page of the book, he is not mentioned. Instead, the Sanskrit credits say that Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati (plus koti koti honorifics in large font) "decorated the Brahma-Samhita with the English language translation and explanations."

And the ISKCON edition, of course, has on its front page a large pic of Bhaktisiddhanta with the caption "Founder of the Gaudiya Math and author of this Brahma-samhita translation and commentary."

In reality he was neither the author of the commentary, nor its translation.

Wow, first talk of the deity Jagannath originally being Jain or Buddhist, before further information that Bhatisiddhanta did not write the attributed translation of Brahma Samhita, but was actually written by S.K. Sanyal!

Before you know it, someone will be saying that G.W. Bush has not been running the United States but an international cabal of corporations headed by Cheney has been doing it for six years…Hah…Umm…Hey wait…Hmmmm…Damn!

Mythos is everlasting!

I'm more into aphorisms and sutras myself these days , without commentaries, I make my own

I have found I have developed a sort of love/hate relationship with Hinduism in general. There are some amazing realizations to be had I believe, yet there is practically endless ritualism, hair splitting, and repetivive narrations in the corpus of liturature (as well as some quite beautiful things too of course )

Interesting about the BSS purports. It goes to show how relying too much on the authority as BS wanted can lead one astray. So how do we know anything? I mean how do we know that BSS incorrect views on Bhaktivinoda, Mayapur, lineage etc etc was BSS or a later disciple of GM.

I composed a rather large post with various piccies and articiles and as all my files are infected by virus, picked up in dodgy internet cafes whose virus thingys etc are not up to spec to soem of the stuff I either picked up here on this site or others, it is forcing me to go on internet at home, so I have certain things to sort out before doing so. There will be a delay in my posts with things attached for some time till I sort this all out.

I have been studying those juicy Jagannatha books from library however and expanding my knowledge and devotion of the Jagannatha tradition. the Buddhist tooth I agree is based on theories not well established but I still feel there are Buddhist traditions crossing over within Puri Vaishnavism. It is an interesting study and a breath of fresh air from the sectarianism one picks up when bound by one particular branch though. It is a most interesting multi faceted study.

Even though Prabhupada repeated so many faults of the previous tradition in regard to philosophy, translations, history etc etc as we have seen detected on these sites, however if we see the spiritual operating in history, it was Prabhupada, the beats and hips of Lower east Side and Haight Ashbury who were the instruments through which Jagannatha appeared to the rest of the world. And this was accompanied by sankirtan, japa nam, prasada and deity worship. From a devotional point of view this is no mean achievement, and is still significant. Therefore it may still be possible to approach Jagannatha Chaitanya through Prabhupada and after all isn't really the aim and goal of the philosophy to dance and chant in ectasy and love of God, all else, philosophical correctness, history is second place? So it may well be poss to reject those thing Prabhupada got wrong and carry on with the essentials. Those kirtans were blissful indeed and I remeber and mis them despite all the stinking politics. I will always have a respect for Prabhupada and he was the only one who came to dwell amongst the beat and the hip. And I will always see the beat and the hip as the flower of the west and the bedrocks of the new openess to eastern philosophy, mysticism and western occultism too. But I cannot accept the Prabhupada knows all and is toto perfecto in all either and yes he got some things terribly wrong in regards to management choices too and traditional interpretations.

Anyway I will send some scanned stuff, artcles piccies etc etc when I can.