"What if no one's watching, what if when we're dead we're just dead?" Ani DiFranco

Regardless of our personal take on the matter of life after death, the existence of God, etc., what if you knew beyond a doubt (suspending your disbelief for a moment) that when you die you will cease to exist?

Would this change anything about how you live your life? What, if anything, would you do differently and why? If it would not change your life at all, why not?

Please leave any debate about whether it is possible to know or prove this for another topic--I'm just interested in getting to how belief or non-belief in an afterlife affects how one lives their life--or not.

I will answer my own question as soon as I have time.

I know there is something after death having been there.... and back...

Are you certain it was death you experienced and not a non-beating heart for a time?

Doctors can exaggerate and sometimes suffer from the Lazarus Syndrome.

such completely theoretical questions seem to be of little value to us mortals, but I will indulge you

I probably would change some things in my life. I would cut out all religious activities for example, but I cant see changing the way I treat other people or myself - it is too much ingrained in my act of being. I would not start drinking for example, as it does absolutely nothing good for me. The same with eating meat.

But honestly, for some of us life after death is a reality beyond a shadow of a doubt. I could tell you about my experiences with ghosts...

This (no existence after death) is what I crrently believe. Although I cannot know for sure, this is at this point my surest bet and the basis for my life choices.

I have tried to answer the question you pose, Tapati, in my member profile:

"I am trying to live a life that will feel meaningful whether or not there is a transcendent purpose with existence. Exchanges with like-minded people are a part of what makes life meaningful to me."

If, when we die, we just die, then there is no God and no absolute meaning with existence. Still, we seem to have both an ability to create meaning and value, and also a need for those. Therefore I try to satisfy my need to lead a life that will feel meaningful and that creates values.

My knowing there is no life after death makes me less harsh, less insistent to get to the bottom of every question and to "save" others -- whether by religion or by self-deconstruction. Ultimately it doesn't matter how I or other people think or how we live our lives. Whether or not we are in illusion. We have to get through this existence somehow, there is enough tragedy in its absurd nature. Any way that gets one through one's life with some dignity is a good way provided it doesn't make it worse for others.

The belief in no life after death makes me interested in the environmental questions -- we are just one species among many, we should not spoil it for all others. But I feel too much self-pity to champion a cause. I just want to be decent to the environment.

This sounds like the question Tapati wanted us to spare for another topic:

Interesting how this concept is so abominable to religionists. Especially Vaisnavas.

If death is final then life is more precious.

I remember when i was a new devotee i used to joke that "even if there is no krishna its still a pretty good life"...that was me as a naive 16 year old. Now I dont know what to think so i guess that makes me an agnostic...or a spiritual agnostic if that is possible.
But yeah just in case there is nothing after death then I want to make sure I enjoy life...because if this is my only one then it sure would be a shame to waste it!

It's something I've thought about often. It really doesn't bother me one way or the other. I like what Socrates said in his final hours about the question. This isn't exact, but the gist of it was that he lived a good life so he took comfort with either the outcome of no life after death or life after death. If there was an afterlife, he would go to a good place and if there was none, he lived a good life for the sake of goodness and the earth was left a better place by him being once alive.

I still strive to live up to what I believe to be the best of human potential. I believe Jesus Christ shows what that potential is. If it is all a myth, then I still am satisfied that I tried to push "being human" to its limits: to make the best of what a human being can potentially be. If there is nothing, we have a responsibility to put human evolution on the right track. Religious ethics and teachings pretty much do the same thing so it really is a win/win situation if you live a good life.

I believe that without living the life that Christ gave to us, even without a god there won't be much hope for a human future. We will give in to our greedy and base natures and destroy what is unique about humanity. We will lose art, beauty and things that are not directly profitable for "competition." I do not believe that competition only is what will further mankind - god,God or no god or God. If there is no god or afterlife, who knows that our desires might eventually evolve there to BE godhood and eternity?

Nevertheless, it would be interesting to hear your answer to the theoretical question!

My answer to the question, setting aside my belief in an after-life for the sake of this thought-experiment:

I probably would have already committed suicide if I knew for sure there were no adverse spiritual consequences awaiting me and I would not have to witness my family's grief.

If I knew for sure there were no afterlife, and I were still alive, I would still have shrine-like spots in my home for psychological peace but they would be solely nature-oriented. I suppose if I still revered Kuan Yin or had images of Her, it might be for what She represents in terms of mercy and compassion rather than as an Entity who would be there for me as I die and has been there for me as I live my life.

I would still try to treat people as well as I am able because I think that's the right thing to do, I wish to support the social contract that keeps society moving in a positive direction, and I wish to engender good will towards myself rather than create anger and a desire for retribution wherever I go.

I probably would still be involved in ritual but for its psychological benefits, again, rather than any spiritual development. Whole books have been written about how we all do engage in rituals of a variety of types, only some of which are spiritual.

In many respects I would find a knowledge that there is no life after death a relief (despite those who believe we cling to belief to avoid fear of death) because I would no longer feel any pressure to make some sort of spiritual progress or worry about what frame of mind I am in when I die or what might happen to me after death. The ambiguity of what really does happen in any theoretical afterlife leaves a lot of room for anxiety over the outcome. I would welcome a relief from that anxiety, that wondering, that sense of, "What if I've got it wrong, what if the fundies (of whatever type) are right and therefore I'm doomed?"

I don't feel that way often, but it does come up now and then. I would welcome the absence of any such doubts or concerns. I would especially welcome the idea that I will no longer exist to feel pain.

What I am trying to get at is a simple look at the role our beliefs play in our chosen lifestyle and how that might change if one important belief were changed. That enables us all to bring actions which may have become ingrained and unconscious up to the conscious level so we can appreciate what went into our choices. It is also informative to others and simply interesting to ponder.

Only each person can know what awareness or unawareness of the afterlife means to him or her and how it affects the way one lives. The answer is quite obvious that it makes a huge difference.

As if you can not enjoy life because you are aware of a higher Being, the origin of all existence... Then you have an even better reason to rejoice. All is good because it comes from and is part of God.

I take Emma's remark in the same context that I would place a remark about how one would notice and enjoy life more if they knew they only had a few months to live. Knowing that something will come to an end lends a sense of urgency and vividness to the experience, doesn't it? Not that life isn't equally worth treasuring if there is a God or an afterlife, just that something one may lose becomes more precious than ever.

I would have ended this life a long time ago, since it would render everything meaningless.

And yet, when I think about it, move my thoughts there, I feel a draft of horror. Actually, it appears that I am unable to think that throught, since my heart says that it is not true.

That must be a kind of zen.
If we do exist, how can we ever think the thought that we don't actually exist?
Nothing that is temporary can have existence, if there is not something that has permanent existence.
And if we don't exist, how can we think at all?

That's illogical, says Spock.

It would change nothing.

I am not a doctor. I know what I experienced and what I saw, what I heard. I did not want to come back. I have a strong antipathy towards doctors and hospitals as a result.

You mean like a shudder? Chilling cold air?
The relationship between the self and its knowledge seems to be like an infinite regression. You know, from programming, a circular reference. It brings down the system.

I don't see that it should make any difference - unless you live holding your breath with a mind on an afterlife of punishment or reward.
Whatever one hopes for, you can live this life as if it were the only one, in intensity and nothing will have been lost or missed.
An eye on eternity does not rule out complete involvement in all the important things in life.

Kirk: Now, Mr. Spock, there's really something about all this that I don't understand, so maybe you could explain it to me, logically of course... Now, when you jettisoned the fuel, and ignited it, you knew that there was virtually no chance of it being seen and yet you did it anyway. Now that seems to me like an act of desperation.

Spock: Quite correct, Captain.

Kirk: Now we all know, and I'm sure the doctor would agree with me, that desperation is a highly emotional state of mind. So how does your well known logic explain that?

Spock: Quite simply, Captain, I examined the problem from all angles, and it was plainly hopeless. Logic informed me that, under the circumstances, the only possible action would have to be one of desperation. Logical decision, logically arrived at.

Kirk: Ah, I see. You mean you reasoned that it was time for an emotional outburst.

Spock: Well, I wouldn't put it in exactly those terms, Captain, but those are essentially the facts.

Kirk: sighs. You aren't going to admit that for the first time in your life, you committed a purely human, emotional act?

Spock: No, sir.

Kirk: laughs. Mr. Spock, you are a stubborn man.

Spock: Yes, sir.

Click to view attachment

I think my answer would be very much like this>>>

I like Adrija's answer.

But I love this question because it is such an unknown. The ultimate unknown in fact. If somebody did infact know what if anything was beyond death, most people would not believe them either way, so it remains the burden (or the bliss) of the individual. Which is how we have to live our daily lives anyway. That said I would probably drink more and expose myself in public occaisionally if I don't have to be judged by jesus.

yep tapati understood what I was saying...I never said people who believe in God/higher being dont enjoy life...but whatever.

What you say is interesting, since if in fact what happens after "death" was known, and yet the answer cannot be accepted, it would be an unacceptable fact. Maybe many persons know, but as long as we can't accept, we would never know.
Then what would be the way to knowing?

I actually often wonder how and what religious people actually know. Maybe everyone who have been in ISKCON knows the art of believing something that we don't know, but what if some persons actually are beyond that stage, and are not dogmatic fanatic believers, but actually "know" in the same way as we know anything?
Would we believe them?
And who would it be?

Thinking that way, you start to wonder - what is "knowing" actually? Is "knowing" ever anything more than strong belief, faith? What if some alien came one day, proved our mathematic all wrong, and said that pi actually is 4. How would that affect our "knowing"? We assume so many thing, and are using self-referring systems. And from that we say that we know for sure. But what more do we know than the self-referring system?

Is ISKCON anything more than a self-referring system?
Maybe they are as convinced and know with the same certainty that we know that the relation between the circumference and diamater of a circle is 3.1415....?

And then the big thought. If the universe is seen as a self-referring system, what is actually truth?

Actually, the relation between a circle, drawn on the ground, and the diameter of it, is not exactly pi, since the earth is a sphere, and that relationship does not hold for circles drawn on spheres, only on flat surfaces.
What does that say about our knowing?

Actually, I first wrote bottomless pit of horror, but thought it too strong, and changed it to the more poetic "draft of horror". Meaning bone chilling cold air carrying with it the smell of unknown, unconceivable horrors in the mood of H.P. Lovecraft.
Yes, something like that. My brain computer cannot compute, it gets into an infinite loop. Fortunately the draft of horror warns me for it, and I retract before the otherwise inevitable meltdown.

The draft of horror might be an evidence that the truth is out there. At least we can say, that our control of things and our "knowing" is very limited. Somehow I find that solacing.

Have you watched the movie: Flatliners?

This belief that there is nothing beyond death was what I held as true for quite a long time, and its effects on my life were that I led a very hedonistic but also depressive existance. I took a lot of drugs to forget about death and to try and have a more intense feeling of life. I spent a lot of time doing nothing and thinking whats the point! I was horrible to people and didn't make much of an effort with anything and I didn't care much about what happened to me, which got me into a lota trouble!

Since adopting the belief that death is not the end my life has improved immeasurably, and even if its not true that we carry on after death, I'm glad my life has changed for the better I wouldn't want that old dark existance even if it was more truthfull.

if i was absolutely postively sure that there was nothing after death maybe i wouldn't have had kids and just killed myself. but since i have kids i guess i wouldn't really change that much about what i do. i still go to a temple sometimes, and i really like it, so if the meaning for that was taken away from me i'd be pretty upset.

I am not sure about whether there is anything beyond death. Yes, the books say there is. I am so fallen that this is not enough "evidence" to me. Nevertheless, the idea of no heaven or hell after death does not scare me at all. Sometimes I feel very tired of all what we call "samsaric existence", so I often think of death as going to sleep after a very tiresome day. Sometimes I do wish I could simply fade away, dissolve into the sky as a cloud disappears. And I never had this "how terrible, there will be no ME after that!". So what? The world has been turning before I was born, and it will go on turning after I kick the bucket. Why the big fuss?

this is honest and true i bet fro many people. Its also why I will never jump on an anti-religion bandwagon, though I may make snide comments occasionally. Religion, IGM and otherwise helps alot of people. Some people it messes up, but I would bet those were likely messed up before getting involved with religion.

yah, you think its cool now not believing in god and being an atheist and all that $hit but i sure hoped you like getting donkey banged cuz that's gonna be your punishment in the underworld for being an atheist

Becoming a devotee did not alter my morals at all.

I was before Krsna, I am after.

I don't have the capacity to alter myself to suit the present company. I am the one who lives with me when the lights go out; in death or in the afterlife.

God can take me or do something more productive, like coloring flowers for his girlfriend.

some people like getting donkey banged though so for them they have to watch old fat men pleasure themselves for many eons.

I watched it, some time ago. It was an interesting movie.

That sounds similiar to being a member of ISKCON

I don't believe in a hellish underworld. Living in this world can be suffering enough.

you can believe whatever you want but that doesn't make it true... just like indra's body being covered with vaginas that morphed into eyes out of the compassion of his gure... with modern science, we now know this is a fact as with the prescence of stem cells, the keys to production of any body part is possible

We could really be pessimistic as was Gloucester in King Lear:

"As flies to wanton boys are we to the gods.
They kill us for their sport."

King Lear Act 4 Scene 1, 36-37 (Shakespeare)

Who needs a hell in these circumstances....

Hell exists only in relation to heaven and vice versa. Create one and you get the other automatically.

Just don't forget, in your enthusiasm over so many vaginas, that Indra has a subtle body not made of flesh and bone, so research in putting multiple bodily organs on bodies is still a black art practiced primarily in concentration camps and other similarly hellish places.

Free from all material designation should the spirit self be seen, and all this acquired identification has caused us as eternal entities to identify ourselves with the temporary and become bewildered. The self, once you realize yourself as consciousness, is only an observer of changing matter (this body) and circumstances (the field of activities), you do not change at all. So what exists? Cannot the Infinite make Itself known to the finite? Know yourself first by knowledge and application.. Then by comparison to the ‘self’ other things can be known.

If it would be proved that there is nothing after death, it wouldn't change the ways of my life. I have just one life in either case, except that now I think it is endless.

I am open to the possibility of life after death and all, but since up to now all "evidence" I got was books and old Eastern people in robes repeating what they read in those books, I remain a bit skeptical. Also, as many books that many - sometimes totally contradictory - ideas about what follows after death. So yes, one can pick one of the books and decide to accept it, this is an option, too.

What does it matter? When you die, you either just stop to exist as a conscious beeing, or you find yourself still being alive. That latter might be quite a shock if you are not prepared for it.

Yeah, but how do you prepare? How can we prepare for the Unkown? Suppose we train ourselves during this life expecting the usual HK scene, cows, 12 year old Indian girls and all. And after death we find ourselves in a totally strange environment, different from what we read in the books. That can be even more shocking. We devote our lives to a certain type of mythology (no offense taken, but it remains mythology until you have direct experiences of that realm) and when we die we realize it's just not there. But it may be worth a try, after all.

So I guess it is a matter of keeping an open mind and be ready for various options.

What if someone who is a die-hard american muslim hater, and just see terrorist attacks everywhere, takes birth in a country where the muslim sharia laws is the norm? I guess that might be a chock? If he remembers, that is. Maybe he just remembers how to hate, and hating the other way around works as well.

I am pretty convinced a person who want to see with the eyes of love won't care if it is the christian heaven, new-age planets, Krishnaloka or any other place where love prevails.

what if when you die you just merge into the Brahmajyoti having perfected bhakti yoga like the Sankaracaryas say. Will you be pissed?