We brahmacaris drove down to LA for the very first Rathyatra on Venice Beach. I believe it was 1977? I was driving the large truck full of stage decorations, pandals, buntings, PA equipment and such that we used in the San Francisco Rathyatras.

As we drove up turning off of Venice Boulevard there were the three carts without the flowers and decorations which revealed the structure and chassis. On the rear axle was a brake operated by a handle and activated by a person sitting under the cart in a chair fixed next to the brake.

My very first thought was – I'd like to sit there tomorrow and work the brake for Jagannatha.

Next morning we are sitting on the temple room floor filling plastic bags with peanuts and raisins and a mantra card for throwing off the carts when, during Tulasi puja, a devotee falls to the floor convulsing just after he waters Tulasi. Epileptic fit. I am only a few feet from where he lies shaking and I watch as he dies. Yes, he died right before a temple room full of devotees. There must be some one reading this who will also remember this.

I expected the authorities to lift him up and dance around rejoicing at the wonderful passing of a vaisnava just having purified himself by worshiping Tulasi, but no. They called the ambulance and next thing there were the men in white coats trying to get him going again.

He was as dead as a doornail. I knew. I saw him die and change from a living color to the pallor of death. There was no way they were going to bring him back. I was happy and envious at the same time. I wanted to die just as he had. With the chanting, the devotees, Tulasi, just having danced before the deities. I wanted to go back to godhead, just as he must have.

After all this business settles down we make our way to the beach and find our friends to begin the festival of the carts right on a packed Los Angeles beach on a hot summer's day. There must have been 100 000 people on the beach.

Finding my group of friends we take our places before one of the carts. Each of the three carts had a devotee in charge to be sure the pujaris and the guards and the gurus were all in their places.

Moments before the parade was to commence, the guy in charge of the cart we were standing right in front of asks where the devotee is who was assigned to work THE BRAKE! He is AWOL! He asks, right in front of my face “ would someone please volunteer to sit under this cart and work the brake?”

I had totally forgotten my wish the day before.

Of course, I volunteered, wearing a very wide smile. I was the only one to know what it meant. I knew Krsna had directly given me the wish to do a menial service which no one else wanted to do, and then he granted me that wish in a way that only I would understand. Sitting under the cart was, for me, much more joyful than dancing before the lord.

No one else knew as I had told no one, unless you count Krsna, that is.

Please, share your stories of being touched by the Divine.

2 points deduction for Preaching

preaching deductions are 5 points plus you get an "ass" for your avatara

this wasn't preaching though

nice story homer

My specialty was that I never experienced anything that could qualify in this thread. I was expecting that something would happen but it never did. It went so far that eventually I started to consider the absence of Gods presence to be the reciprocation.

Comfort From Above

My son Lakshmana was at Stanford Hospital in Palo Alto California. He had a serious bicycle accident on Sept 10, and a week later was sent from Dominican Hospital to Stanford. I was driving over a mountain and into Palo Alto, past San Jose, to visit him.

One night I got back from my trip. He was still deep in coma and I very much feared he either wasn't going to live or would live as a vegetable. I was lighting a candle for him every night before I went to bed, a healing spell. These were my first fledgling Wiccan spells, really, I wasn't very far progressed onto my Wiccan path at that point. Just a beginner at magic. I had mostly been reading up to that point.

I completed my candle ritual and went to bed, exhausted and disheartened. The doctors had been very blunt: the longer he was in coma, the less likely there would be a good outcome.

As I lay there I was overcome with anticipatory grief and the stress of the long wait for an answer, and I cried and cried and cried until I was all cried out. In that calm state one reaches after such a cry, tired and resigned and still, I lay with my eyes closed waiting for sleep to overtake me. Instead I suddenly sensed wings and a golden light enveloped me, and I felt waves of comfort wash over me. I was suddenly very wide awake and filled with awe at these sensations, and I lay very still, afraid to do or say anything that might disturb whatever higher presence was there. I was certain it was some higher being, angelic or fairy or (?) and I didn't want to break the spell, not even to open my eyes. I could see the golden light through my eyelids and feel the strong comfort emanating from above me. I felt so loved, and I felt that all would be ok with my son. Gradually it faded and I was left with the sweet memory and the sense of comfort. (This light was NOT like car lights or other logical sources.)

I've never forgotten that night and my sense that yes, there is a meaning and a purpose and there are those who care and look out for us.

I like Krsna - what I don't like is the business run in his name.

From what you have told us about your upbringing and of the love and tolerance, I'd say you have had heaps of reciprocation from god.

woops

There have been some incidents around the time when I lost gradually my faith , over a period of some weeks .

One of them was , that I came back from work in a taxi , and suddenly the radio starts to play " my sweet lord " by G. Harrison . ( the interesting thing is I only heard it once before , many years ago , but shortly on tv , and never since then . )
So I thought about Krsna , or I told him mentally : " Nice try , but it takes much more to convince me ! "

Around the same period , I went to a turkish bakery , I visit from time to time and suddenly I see these sweets that make me remember the parasadam -" energy balls " with cocos layer around them . Interesting since I´ve never seen them before at this store .
It made me a bit melancholic and I came to the conclusion that destiny and/or Krishna is playing around with me . I must add here , that since this single day , they never made these "energy balls " again , but I always look for them ...

Also , I want to add , that I can sometimes feel the presence of higher powers and I think this Krishna might also even exist personally , but I am not sure at this moment what kind of entity it is , if it is benevolent or if it´s an entity that is looking for souls to be bound to him in the afterlife ( like a pact ... )

I still blame George for being instrumental in making me a devotee. I am unsure if I will ever forgive him.

Ha ha - the kitchen religion strikes again.

I have my white lady and her tiger. She is very much a comforter, although there is iron there. She came to me this morning between sleeping and waking at about first light. The golden light is part of the apparition.


On another topic co-incidences do happen. The first time I went to a HK Temple it was Radhastami. I felt like I was called to go that day.

I was also born on Radha Kund appearance day (according to the lunar calendar). This was the second time I wnet to a HK Temple.

I have always felt more affinity with Radha/Subhadra

Click to view attachment

One man's coincidence is another man's Epiphany.

The first day I was in a temple was Janmastami and also the first day in the new Korsnäs temple room (but the latter I learned first many years later).
It was not anything I had planned, i just got an urge to find the hare-krishna's one day. I had never met any before.
Of course, the devotees blew it completely, didn't preach, didn't give me a book, didn't give me prasadam. But they were very eager to give me some beads, and with the help of a BTG thrown in a corner, I learned the mantra (initiated myself?).
In the evening I was hungry, frozen and tired, and the devotees blew it again, so I left although I wanted to join. But at that time I knew that one day I would become a devotee.
Maybe it also told me that the hare krishna devotees never would care a bit, and my devotion is thing between me and Krishna.

Sometimes, Prisni, you best friend is your worst enemy.

He can give you strength and vision.

I think that as they helped you, by default,to realize that devotion is between you and Krsna, then you were the winner.

This type of preaching is way more effective than parroting on about Vedic Scientific Theory.

One magic moment was in Vrindavana 1988, or somewhere thereabouts.
It was the festival where they fill the whole temple with water, and Radha & Krishna are on a boat. I had seen it once before, and this time I really wished to serve them by pushing the boat. Suddenly one devotee I knew (Kirtiraja), pulled at me to get into the water an push, and I did. But not for long, since a self-proclaimed brijabasi devotee, who was also leading some of the parikrams in the day, and had decided he did not like me (I can see such things), saw me there, got upset and gave the sign to me to get out of the water, and I did.
At the next time the boat was passing me, Kirtiraja was there again, and pulled me down in the water again. And the thing repeated itself, the enimonous devotee wanted me to get out. But at that time I realised that it was up to me to grab hold to the service. I had to earn it by not letting go, and I did not and continued with determination.
It was one of my finest moments in ISKCON.
Maybe it was also like Krishna saying - I accept you in my service. Just go one, and grab hold of it despite what happens. I am always there with you.

The empire stroke back .

The first time i was trying to make it to the temple i had been staying in the city with some fringie devotees and wanted to go out to the farm to see the fringie devotee i was going out with at the time.
I grabbed a map and was hoping to hitch out to the farm...i was walking up the road chanting really loud and then i sat down on the kerb with the map because i wanted to plan my route.
then this truck pulled up and a guy asked me where I wanted to go so i told him i wanted to go to the Hare Krishna Farm out at Riverhead. Straight away he said "oh i was going out that way later today but i will go now, get in and i will give you a ride" so i got in and got a ride all the way to the farm. It was actually quite a long way away and i would never have got there by hitching... I always thought that was cool but now I look back and think i was lucky that guy wasnt some kind of homicidal maniac LOL

Yes, this is how I understand the nature of the divine.

The mercy manifests itself in small ways that make sense only to the person involved. To an outsider it may appear to be random or chance, but to the one feeling the energy it is a potential life changing experience.

So many seem to overlook the little mercies and they are counting on some grand cosmic gesture.

When god whispers into your ear it is sweeter than an orchestra of angels or a choir of celestial singers.

I had a funny synchronistic experience recently that made me think god was messing with my head.

Will you share with us? Or is it the sort of thing that wouldn't make any sense except for yourself?

I guess it would be fairly meaningless to others...
I had read a post by Prsni where she referred to the role of Indian gurus and that got me to thinking over something Sridhar Maharaja had said about Krsna being a terrible thing without guru - the analogy is to do with the lotus, the sun is Krsna and the water is the guru! Anyway I was thinking that, in our culture to approach God directly is not a problem. But then, I thought of the idea of intercession which I was brought up with - almost everyone prayed to God either via Mary or through their favourite saint - like a grand-aunt of mine always prayed to St. Martin de Porres. All this was going on in my head but I was still thinking I still think you should not be deterred from direct connection with god.At this point in my musings, I turned on the radio and the song was one I'd never heard (Norah Jones) with the line - the sun doesn't like you - you always get burned. Then as soon as the song finished the d.j. was saying how an optometrist had just phoned in and talking about problems with eyes.(direct vision of the sun damages the eyes) It just make me laugh and think of God as trickster!!

Nice. Tricky. Thanks for sharing!

Ha ha. I knew a band in Canada named Heaven's Radio.

It surprises me that we have had so few posts in this topic.

Another way of asking how god has touched you is to ask why do you believe in god?

Unless there has been a moment in your life where you felt the presence of the divine how does one know there is a god and thus follow a religion?

Is hope that there is a god enough?

Is it enough to read or be told about god and if it makes logical sense to then worship god?

Perhaps these experiences of direct perception of god are too personal and those devotees who are still devotees wish to keep others from trivializing their beliefs?

I would have thought the vaisnavas and other theists here would have been eager to share their moments of bliss with us.

yes, where is your god, is he in this post?

I would have a problem with a guru saying that the guru is always there as a kind of intermediate. I don't think it is like that at all. Actually, I think that Krishna gave me a guru that did not last the whole way, just to show that this is not a fact. Guru is like a therapist. S/he helps you with your problems, but it is not the person to have a relationship with, and when you are ready, the therapist steps aside.
The idea of the perfect guru that is always there, I think should be buried. There are no such persons and it is not even desirable in this religion.

The idea to approach Krishna, by approaching one of his friends, does not mean that the friend always will stand in between. Just that the friendship with the friend will not stop when we have reached Krishna. The friend (guru) is not a stepping stone that we discard when we are there. That relationship is eternal too. The friend will always remain a friend even when we have reached Krishna.

Do you need a friend to help you approach your father?

I never understood this analogy about how one approaches an important person by befriending that person's dog and how we need a intermediary between god and ourselves.

The idea of equating our relationship with god as being on the level of our relationship (or lack of) with a rich and powerful businessman speaks volumes about the concept the Indian mind has about the nature of god.

Needing a intermediary to approach one's own father ( I presume god is father to us all) sounds so distant and businesslike.

Without direct personal experience of god how does one know if the 'friend' has direct experience of god?

God is where you find him.

Dhyana, as you say you are an atheist I am curious how you have come to this conclusion.

I have a friend who was brought up as a Christian. He was taught that god will grant anything to you if you pray to Jesus.

Well, every year he prayed to god through Jesus in order to get his desired present for Christmas. He never got what he prayed for and thus he became an atheist.

What brings a former true believer such as yourself to the other side of the fence and do you have a rational concerning this you would care to share with us?

From where does your faith in no god spring?

Patience, eh? It's 10.04 p.m. where i am, and i just sat down to read the thread through (having noticed it this morning for the first time, after checking my e-mail before going to work) and now it's 10.07, maybe 10.08 if i act fast ant post now.

Please, take your time.

Correct the spelling error and spoil an instance of synchronicity? Not me, i'm like an ant worker in the whole God spectrum and it suits me well.

A personal story will follow. Tonight or tomorrow night.

Sometimes we get overwhelmed thinking about one or more close encounters with the Divine.

And some people are just way too shy or hesitant ("lest i believe again").

I think this is one is exemplifying of the major problems when westeners approach Gaudiya Vaisnavism. To come with the preconseptions of Christianity, and seeing Krishna as God father, and Prabhupada as the son. And despite many years in the movement, some still keep that belief. The result is just a tasteless soup.

Gaudiya Vaisnavism is primarily about how to approach Krishna as a lover. (or friend or son or husband). I also think that is what gives Gaudiya Vaisnavism its charm. If we are to mix religious wildly, we can as well try to see Krishna in the light of scientology, or something like that.

I don't understand, Prisni.

Is not Krsna the cause of all causes?

Would it be more palatable to you, Prisni, if the question read:

Do you need a friend to help you approach your son?

Also I was thinking, in regard to the analogy, what if we took another plant and not the lotus - there's always a way of turning an analogy around, unpicking it. I think it was the intensity with which the dilemma was engaging me - years ago I would have seen the answer I got as a straightforward confirmation of the philosophy - but you can't leave aside conscience.
Another thing that's been making me ponder recently - I was thinking of sastra as like a treasure map - there are as many tricks and false ways to go (such as getting caught up in the rules and regs and literalisms) and in among all that there are indications, clues, insights. A lot of terms Sridhar Maharaja used like hidden treasure came up in my mind. Whatever is laid out on a plate will be superficial because it does not include our own individual engagement...

The connection between that and the idea of Krishna as father, sounds like sexism to me.

Seeing the guru as being an authority who is able to teach about god takes perception that s/he has a superior understanding of what is god and how to connect with him.

How does one determine this? How do you know who is the guru?

There must be personal insight, a direct perception, that gives one faith in guru and or shastra.

If not then how does one recognize the guru?

This is something you need to bring up with your lover, Prisni.

BG 14-4

It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kunti, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father.

I certainly was aware of that when I wrote my text, and I based the wording in my answer on that, but I guess it was to subtle.

Krishna actually does not say that he is the cause of all causes in that text. He only say that he is the seed giving father for all species in material nature. The sexist connection is to think that the seed giving father by default is somehow more glorious than the womb-posessing mother.

Normally it is the mother who is glorified for giving birth to children.
Sometimes you don't even know who is the father, so maybe Krishna felt that he needed to point it out since it otherwise might be unclear.

(This is one of the cases where I should go to the sanskrit to see what it says, but I am sick, and really, I don't care to argue from the scriptures. So instead I open up for som pandit to say that the verse actually says something different)

That is the question. If you have a personal insight, a direct perception, intuition if you will, where do they come from?

Maybe in a former life you were some Corporal Jones in the British Army in the 19th century occupying India (millions of Brits worked in India) or worked as a civil servant there, returned to Europe to die after having been in contact with Hinduism there. So now you incarnate as a European and your intuition whispers 'this is the real deal', is that trustworthy?

"Faith in no god" was the default I was brought up with. I was fascinated with the idea of God, and hoped he indeed existed, but as a child and teenager I was never sure he did. "Missing" god, that was more like it. I didn't miss a person to love, but rather a supreme creator and wise teacher, whose existence would bring a sense of meaning to everything, a "key" to make things fall in place. There were holes in my existential map, and God was needed to fill them.

Joining the Hare Krishnas was a leap of faith, acting on an assumption -- a hope -- that God existed.

My belief in God was never an unconditional one. It rested on my need to make sense out of existence. After some years, my KC experience no longer made good sense and to make it worse, it began causing new "holes" on the map. My belief in God collapsed. First the belief in the Krishna version of theology. Soon thereafter, any notion of God relevant to humans. Last thing to relinquish was reincarnation.

The above is how I see it, and I want to believe that my memories of the process are accurate. But as you say, Homer, it is a "rationale." The real story was probably messier.

this is how i incarnated in the west... my father was a member of viceroy montbatten's flight crew and he recieved the blessings of a prostitute making way for my incarnation

I have always been a firm believer in bibliomancy and later, tarot, which in my mind is creating an opportunity for dialogue with divine forces or personalities, be they spirit guides or Goddess Herself. I have often received cards or quotes that were eerie in their appropriateness to the moment.

Then there are those frequent moments in prayer or meditation where I feel connected to something or someone much larger than myself. The scientists dismiss this as chemicals in my brain. Perhaps those chemicals are merely a conduit to communication? Whatever I'm experiencing, it's powerful enough to convince me there's more to reality than meets the scientist's microscope or the scriptures' long list of thou shalt nots.

You and I may not accept scripture as the final authority. However:

BG 10-8

I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts.

Śrī Brahma-saḿhitā 5.1

Kṛṣṇa who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes.

I re watched the movie Gandhi yesterday. It reminded me of the women murdered by their own families to preserve their purity and the integrity of their religions.

Here is one of many reasons I have come to loathe religions of any type:


http://www.countercurrents.org/gender-hariharan111004.htm

“It is a useful thing to perpetuate a tradition of martyrdom, especially when women’s bodies are vulnerable to being viewed as the vessels of national honour. It was this unholy honour that provided the motive for otherwise “normal” men to kill their own sisters and wives and mothers during the Partition — “disappearances” and murders which have been covered by a conspiracy of silence, and by the more acceptable belief that these women were abducted or killed by men from the other side. In her book The Other Side of Silence, Urvashi Butalia takes on this myth that the perpetrators of violence were always “outsiders”. She writes about a man she interviewed in Amritsar, Mangal Singh, whose family killed seventeen of its women and children. He refuses to use the word killed; he says they became “martyrs” in keeping with Sikh pride. The women, he says, were willing to become martyrs. “The real fear was one of dishonour.” But, asks Butalia, who had the pride and the fear? It is not a question Mangal Singh was willing to examine. Similarly, in Borders and Boundaries: Women in India’s Partition, Ritu Menon records the account of a partition survivor, Durga Rani. In this account, two types of honour killings occur: one in anticipation of dishonour; the other as a way to cope with dishonour. Consider, on the one hand: “In the villages of Head Junu, Hindus threw their young daughters into wells, dug trenches and buried them alive. Some were burnt to death, some were made to touch electric wires to prevent the Muslims touching them.” On the other hand, Durga Rani gives us an idea of what happened to many women who had been abandoned after being raped and disfigured. They could not be “kept” any longer because their “character” was now spoilt. In some cases, as in that of a girl who was raped by ten or more men, the only way to deal with the dishonour was murder; the girl, says Durga Rani, was burnt by her father.”

This is my experience as well.

I think, therefore I am - It is you I am not sure of.