Have I been ruined? Options

[Homer]

One of the many passions in my life is the making, playing, composing and singing of music. I have always done this since I was just a kid playing on what ever instrument was laying around.

I used to be adept at just doodling with tunes and the ability to make a song up from my heart was really easy. This was before I ‘became’ a devotee, that is.

I have recently set up a studio in my granny flat – multi track digital recorder, new guitars, synthesizer, really good mics, and my array of acoustic and devotional instruments. This flat is away from the house by around 70 metres so I am able to play as loud and whenever the fancy strikes me.

Sounds like an ideal set up, huh?

Thing is, I seem to have lost the ability to just play my own music! All I ever play is devotional songs and that darned Hare Krsna stuff!

I mean it. I do have fun playing these sweet songs and melodies but I wish I could regain my knack of original music making.

This leads me to wonder how my “original” thoughts have been altered to reflect this infection of devotional life I have lived.

Am I a Zombie?

[0gopidust0]

George Harrison and John Lennon used to just chant for hours on a ukulele out on a boat and once they stopped, it was like the lights went out.
Even I like chanting on my beads.
Yes, you have gotten a taste for Krishna and you can never go back to being a *non-devotee* again.

[Homer]

Yes, you have gotten a taste for Krishna and you can never go back to being a *non-devotee* again.

I guess I will never really understand just what a "non devotee" is. I mean we are all Krsna's children. Some of us have a glimmer of groking but most are too involved in "The Game."

Either way, Krsna's children we are.

Isn't a devotee supposed to be mindful of this relationship? I know, some are volunteers and others are criminals, right?

Maybe someone should ask Nanda maharaja?

[Milla]

Homer, I can relate to what you are saying. Before I joined, I used to sing all the time, whenever I did something that didn't require mental concentration. One of my childhood dreams was to become a singer. I had to unlearn this in the temple not to disturb "the opposite sex" and I got used to sing only in formal settings (temple kirtans or alone before the Deities). I tried singing again many times after moving to my own home, but I have lost my inspiration. I am a bit sad about it because singing was a central part of my self-expression and music was in my blood.

Becoming an ISKCON devotee involves radical changes in our lifestyle and environment, and they can affect us profoundly. And some changes are irreversible But we also learned new, positive things. E.g. I was very reserved and couldn't speak with anyone for more than 5 minutes. I just had nothing to say. I was uneasy at oral exams. My outlet was singing. I also compensated my reticence by being a good listener and writer. In the temple I learned to speak and express myself verbally and came to enjoy talking with others. So you lose something, you gain something, you learn all life long. But sometimes it is sad that you can't bring back a past moment even for all the gold in this world (Second Canto SB?).

[Chanahari]

I was very reserved and couldn't speak with anyone for more than 5 minutes. I just had nothing to say. I was uneasy at oral exams.

[...]

In the temple I learned to speak and express myself verbally and came to enjoy talking with others.

I have the same setup as you had before your exposure to ISKCON. It seems that I should have moved in the temple. I didn't, so I didn't lose anything and didn't gain anything like these qualities either.

[Tapati]

I used to sing a lot in the temple, and the only time we got flack for it was when a Radha Damodar party was visiting. We were making vases and singing, and brahmacharis were in earshot. One was delegated to come over and tell us that we were distracting them...uh, agitating them, or something.

But most of the time it was fine.

Then my ex husband used to criticize my singing a lot. It was hard to understand, because I'd been praised for it all my life. I have a reasonably good voice, not great, but certainly not hard to listen to.

I stopped.

But, Milla, I did get it back eventually, so there's hope. Be persistant. Start by singing along to music on your cd player or something. It'll come back.

[Homer]

But sometimes it is sad that you can't bring back a past moment even for all the gold in this world (Second Canto SB?).

The concept of eternal, for myself, must include the past/present/future. Otherwise the implication is that eternality has a beginning; it must follow that it must also have an end.

Naturally, the question about the present arises. Perhaps the present contains both the past and the future?

Or does eternity exist? do we exist? Is consciousness proof enough that a thing exists? Or is a dream proof that wakefulness exists? Could the dream be the reality? What is reality?

Maybe the past is present in the now, and the future is already past?

What gives me no consolation is a quote from a book that has no authority other than another quote from a book.

I am feeling like a leaf-in-the-wind.

[0talasiga0]

I used to sing a lot in the temple, and the only time we got flack for it was when a Radha Damodar party was visiting. We were making vases and singing, and brahmacharis were in earshot. One was delegated to come over and tell us that we were distracting them...uh, agitating them, or something.

......

The delegation had no validity. Prabhupad would never delegate anyone to stop other devotees singing the Holy Names. Do not obey such delegations. They are ultra vires.

[Homer]

The delegation had no validity.  Prabhupad would never delegate anyone to stop other devotees singing the Holy Names.  Do not obey such delegations.  They are ultra vires.

Tamal Krsna took it upon himself to command the whole of ISKCON to cease chanting, "Bhaja Sri Krsna Caitanya," because Prabhupada stopped a devotee in one kirtana and asked him to sing, "Jaya Sri Krsna Caitanya!"

And to this day I felt ripped off as I believed that the original chanting was faultless.

Delegation is a fact of life!

[0talasiga0]

Tamal Krsna took it upon himself to command the whole of ISKCON to cease chanting, "Bhaja Sri Krsna Caitanya," because Prabhupada stopped a devotee in one kirtana and asked him to sing, "Jaya Sri Krsna Caitanya!"

And to this day I felt ripped off as I believed that the original chanting was faultless.

Delegation is a fact of life!

Homer, there is no parity between the import in my post and the import in yours.
Prabhupad was guiding the content of the singing. He was not telling devotees not to sing. Please read Tpati's post again.

[Homer]

Homer, there is no parity between the import in my post and the import in yours.
Prabhupad was guiding the content of the singing.  He was not telling devotees not to sing.  Please read Tpati's post again.

The point is that unauthorized delegation is a fact of life.

Prabhupada told ONE devotee to chant Jaya Sri Krsna! He did not instruct us all to refrain from chanting Bhaja Sri Krsna.

Over the years the myth has been passed on by silly authorities.

And these silly authorities have passed on more silly imperatives!

[Dhyana]

(Homer)

The concept of eternal, for myself, must include the past/present/future.  Otherwise the implication is that eternality has a beginning; it must follow that it must also have an end.

Naturally, the question about the present arises.  Perhaps the present contains both the past and the future?

I do think so. The present is the key.

The present moment is not eternity, but it is closer to eternity than the past or future. (William Valicella, a philosopher I know little about, but all I do know I like)

Or does eternity exist? do we exist?  Is consciousness proof enough that a thing exists?  Or is a dream proof that wakefulness exists?  Could the dream be the reality?  What is reality?

Maybe reality is having questions...

What gives me no consolation is a quote from a book that has no authority other than another quote from a book.

Rrrrright. Oh how familiar this feels. If only a quote could take the burden of existence off from our shoulders.

I am feeling like a leaf-in-the-wind.

Flapping? Who knows, maybe the purpose of our existence is to soothe the hearts of angels with our ceaseless rustling ---

[Tapati]

The delegation had no validity.  Prabhupad would never delegate anyone to stop other devotees singing the Holy Names.  Do not obey such delegations.  They are ultra vires.

I wouldn't now, but back then I was 16, the Radha Damodar gang were intimidating, the level of hostility towards women went waaay up whenever they visited, and my ashram authority stopped singing so we all took our cue from her. Heaven forbid we "agitate" the brahmacharis. Wouldn't want to melt the butter!

What a picture it painted of men as such fragile creatures--it was really more insulting to them than to us. I can't imagine that hearing women sing the Holy Names would be a cause of major "fall down."

[angrezi]

What a picture it painted of men as such fragile creatures--it was really more insulting to them than to us. I can't imagine that hearing women sing the Holy Names would be a cause of major "fall down."

How true. One can only "fall down" if they were artificially propped up too high in the first place !

[Homer]

I wouldn't now, but back then I was 16, the Radha Damodar gang were intimidating, the level of hostility towards women went waaay up whenever they visited, and my ashram authority stopped singing so we all took our cue from her.  Heaven forbid we "agitate" the brahmacharis. Wouldn't want to melt the butter!

What a picture it painted of men as such fragile creatures--it was really more insulting to them than to us. I can't imagine that hearing women sing the Holy Names would be a cause of major "fall down."

The odd thing abour the RDSP was the dichotomy of leadership – Tamal and Visnujhana.

Visnujhana was such a brother. I remember having such sweet talks with him while he was sitting in front of his bus at a Chaitanya festival in Santa Cruz as he cooked pakora that he sold for $0.25 which was mainly a device for meeting prospective devotees.

He was expert at attracting sincere souls to Krsna and Prabhupada. Every one wanted to be as blissful as he was. And it was so cool to be a devotee.

Tamal was the exact opposite As quickly as Visnujhana made bhaktas Tamal would make it impossible for them to stay.

I don’t mean to make anyone who may have loved Tamal to lose their faith

[Homer]

How true. One can only "fall down" if they were artificially propped up too high in the first place !

Gravity does have it way in the end.

[Brainiac]

Prabhupada told ONE devotee to chant Jaya Sri Krsna!  He did not instruct us all to refrain from chanting Bhaja Sri Krsna.

Over the years the myth has been passed on by silly authorities.

And these silly authorities have passed on more silly imperatives!

I know that story. It was because 'Bhaja Sri' was perceived as the 'babaji' style of singing whereas 'Jaya Sri' was the "authorised" ISKCON style. Therefore this ionstruction was in consonance with the rest of his instructions about not associating with babajis.

[Brainiac]

What a picture it painted of men as such fragile creatures--it was really more insulting to them than to us. I can't imagine that hearing women sing the Holy Names would be a cause of major "fall down."

You know, it was once suggested to Prabhupada personally that the playing of Yamuna's 'Govindam' recorded should stop playing because Yamuna's feminine voice was a distraction. Needless to say, Prabhupada did not agree.

I tend to think that music is one of the things about life that make it so beautiful. I have always been quite musical myself and got a chance to do some remixes live on radio once. I still find it amazing how one can just simply tap on a surface and produce a hypnotic rhythm. It is truly one of the feature of life that intoxicates us and enables us to see beauty everywhere. Hearts transform by the power of music; even the human body is playing a song at all times if only we were sensitive enough to hear it. Music can even bring about changes in the weather; remember the stories of Tansen?

So to strip an individual of their love for music by direct or indirect means is, in my view, a crime against humanity.

[Tapati]

So to strip an individual of their love for music by direct or indirect means is, in my view, a crime against humanity.

Amen!

I would add "their love for or expression of music."

I feel the same about how criticism robs us of our ability to create visual art if we feel it is not "good enough" as I believe creation of art is an essential human experience. I've written essays on this subject in the past.

[0Oneiros0]

I tend to think that music is one of the things about life that make it so beautiful.

You make me think of Cioran who wrote:

"I cannot differentiate between tears and music" (Nietzsche). Whoever is not immediately struck by the profundity of this statement has not lived for a minute in the intimacy of music. I know of no other music than that of tears. Born of the loss of paradise, music gives birth to the symbols of this loss: tears.