Norway under attack! Options

[Kalisurfer]

Strange reading the news and hearing about Norway being under attack, a headline seemingly ripped from history rather than being current, but a bomb or two have gone off in downtown Oslo near the Prime Ministers office, then a guy dressed in a police uniform starts shooting at kids at a day camp where the Prime Minister was supposed to speak ... all pretty strange things to hear, for Norway seems like one the last places one would hear of terrorist attacks of some kind.

I have been thinking of our GR friends who live in or near Norway, Zanardi and his wife, Dhyana and ePiTau, Prisni and others, wondering how this effects you and what insight you may have into what happened and some possible motives behind it all.

BBC news on the Norway attack

[ePiTau]

About possible motives it's too early to speculate. Could be anything. I have been living in various big cities where bombs went off. When living in Hamburg in the 70ties I was even arrested by anti terror police who suspected I had planted and detonated a bomb at Hamburg's Central Station. I had been seen there around the time it happened. Only I wasn't there exactly when it happened. On the other hand, I had the knowledge to make such things happen. So it was tricky. But I was cleared. Still, an interesting experience, to be arrested at gun point by a whole crowd of police who didn't leave the slightest doubt in my mind I would be getting rather perforated if I made a wrong move.

[Kalisurfer]

About possible motives it's too early to speculate. Could be anything. I have been living in various big cities where bombs went off. When living in Hamburg in the 70ties I was even arrested by anti terror police who suspected I had planted and detonated a bomb at Hamburg's Central Station. I had been seen there around the time it happened. Only I wasn't there exactly when it happened. On the other hand, I had the knowledge to make such things happen. So it was tricky. But I was cleared. Still, an interesting experience, to be arrested at gun point by a whole crowd of police who didn't leave the slightest doubt in my mind I would be getting rather perforated if I made a wrong move.

Whoa, what a story to tell, did not picture you as a 70's political radical with that kind of know how, but glad you made it through the experience without getting hurt. I was held by police a few times in my youth at about the same time, but never for something as serious as what you were held for. There is a strong sense of helplessness in a situation like that, outnumbered and outgunned, totally at the mercy of men who don't particularly care about how you feel or what for that matter, what happens to you.

The story in Norway is still breaking and they have not let all the info out, but the shooting at the day camp may have killed more than the bombs, with the victims supposedly being kids or teenagers, strange days indeed.

[Homer]

A connection?

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n...t-ma-skje-na%2F

[Homer]

We live in a twisted world, for sure....

http://mwcnews.net/focus/politics/12328-ma...-in-norway.html

"Was the Massacre in Norway a reaction to BDS?...

[Homer]

Even stranger...

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_s...-yesterday.html

"Who Added "Christian" and "Conservative" to Norway Shooter's Facebook Page Yesterday?..."

[Gerard]

"Who Added "Christian" and "Conservative" to Norway Shooter's Facebook Page Yesterday?..."

Who would benefit from those changes?


--------------

The favorite 'lone wolf' theory is undermined already by some surviving eyewitnesses who say there was a second shooter, a heavy set man with dark hair with rifle and hand gun.

[Brainiac]

A friend of mine who lives in Norway, his immediate reaction was that it might be the work of Islamic fundamentalists as Norway seems to have had quite an influx of Muslims in the Norwegian population.

Here's a type of psychological assessment from BBC News.

[babu]

A friend of mine who lives in Norway, his immediate reaction was that it might be the work of Islamic fundamentalists as Norway seems to have had quite an influx of Muslims in the Norwegian population.

Here's a type of psychological assessment from BBC News.

"According to the police and Mr Breivik's own lawyer, the suspect has admitted the killings but has not accepted criminal responsibility for them. In other words, he does not believe he should be punished for them. "

I know nothing of Norweigian law but I find it fascinating that he could have done the killings but not be criminally responsible for them.

[Kalisurfer]

Even stranger...

"Who Added "Christian" and "Conservative" to Norway Shooter's Facebook Page Yesterday?..."

Hmmmm, let's see, ..... OK, it was Obama and his personal team of Marxist yet free market Kenyan Zionist hackers with loose ties to Knights of the Templer, Masons, Illuminati and GBC mafiaosto boot lickers who have yet to go deaf listening to satanic heavy metal music, ... yep, yep, yet? Hmmmmm.

"Pauperes commilitones Christi Solomonici templi inviolabilis et satanas, qui colunt barack mediante phantasia grave metallum et forum scribendi !"

[Homer]

This is all so predictable that it is positively boring...

http://www.newser.com/story/124271/glenn-b...tler-youth.html

"Glenn Beck: Norway Victims Just Like Hitler Youth..."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/11/g...w_n_894704.html

"Glenn Beck Israel Visit Warmly Received By Parliament..."

[Brainiac]

'Breivik manifesto' details chilling attack preparation

The manifesto begins with an entry for April/May 2002, in which the author claims to have been "ordinated as the 8th Justiciar Knight for the PCCTS, Knights Templar Europe" - the "resistance movement" that elsewhere he claims has been established to combat the "Islamisation" of Europe.

[darwin]

"Glenn Beck: Norway Victims Just Like Hitler Youth..."

A political training camp run by a political party and calling themselves the Norwegian Workers Youth League. To an American that does sound Nazi or Soviet. And what do they busy themselves with all the way up there in Norway? Here is a picture that I think is the Norway leader visiting the camp:

[Gerard]

"Glenn Beck: Norway Victims Just Like Hitler Youth..."

A political training camp run by a political party and calling themselves the Norwegian Workers Youth League. To an American that does sound Nazi or Soviet. And what do they busy themselves with all the way up there in Norway? Here is a picture that I think is the Norway leader visiting the camp:

Sometimes it is so embarrasing to read comments written by Americans. Americans are still totally isolated from the rest of the world, no idea what is going on elsewhere and no American cares. And after 9/11 asking "why do they hate us?".

And what do they busy themselves with all the way up there in Norway?

To Norwegians Norway is the center of the world like the USA is to Americans. Start traveling a bit Darwin, get out into the real world.

[Dhyana]

"Pauperes commilitones Christi Solomonici templi inviolabilis et satanas, qui colunt barack mediante phantasia grave metallum et forum scribendi !"

[darwin]

I live in Boston and I don't think we are the center of anything. I think we are too far north and its miserable if you can't go south in the late winter. I just double checked my map on the wall and Norway is located next to the North Pole. I hope they get warm weather from the Gulf Stream that we miss. London seems to have spring come a month before Boston even though they are way north of here. Actually Boston is as far south as Rome. We are farther south than all of France. But I am already getting depressed thinking about another winter of cold and permanent dark clouds.

I hate all the bombing and killing that Obama and the USA do. The fact is that Norway is doing it too as a member of NATO. That is why people were at first thinking the Norway killings were done by muslims.

And being anti Israel seems to be the new thing. I would love to discuss this issue. I have never been there, but I spent 5 years taking drugs and hanging out in and around a jewish dumpster behind the Hadassah charity thrift store that was in the Allston neighborhood where the original Krishna Temple had been. Why the focus on and singling out of Israel as a human rights violator while ignoring the rest of the mideast and world? Why is there no movement for the right of return or compensation for jews expelled from middle eastern countries and Europe and compensation for all the killings?

The kind of individual genius it took to do this attack in Norway and the motivating sexual problems and the proper political climate comes along in a perfect storm only once every few decades even in a large country. I don't think Glen Beck and other political personalities and political movements should be held responsible.

[Kalisurfer]

I live in Boston and I don't think we are the center of anything. I think we are too far north and its miserable if you can't go south in the late winter. I just double checked my map on the wall and Norway is located next to the North Pole. I hope they get warm weather from the Gulf Stream that we miss. London seems to have spring come a month before Boston even though they are way north of here. Actually Boston is as far south as Rome. We are farther south than all of France. But I am already getting depressed thinking about another winter of cold and permanent dark clouds.

Darwin, Oslo, Norway is 2079 miles (3345 kilometers) from the North Pole, not really that close, whereas Boston is 3290 miles (5295 kilometers) from it. Weather is in not only determined by latitude or how far one is from the earth's poles, it also includes elevation (sea levels), air masses, prevailing winds, nearness to water, ocean currents and landforms. Although Boston looks equal to southern France on the world map latitudinally, (It actually almost matches Leon, Spain) it does not have the same weather patterns what so ever as you have attested and only know so well.

One would think that for anyone taking the summer off vacationing at Martha's Vineyards and Cape Cod beaches would have better maps available to them?

[Kalisurfer]

Sometimes it is so embarrassing to read comments written by Americans. Americans are still totally isolated from the rest of the world, no idea what is going on elsewhere and no American cares. And after 9/11 asking "why do they hate us?".

Unless you are joking Gerard (I hope I hope), isn't that a rather broad generalization, I mean saying that no American cares is painting with a rather broad brush there.

There are Americans who don't bother to read or watch international news, while TV cable news by American companies don't really cover it in depth, but many Americans do care and are in the information loop. We are not all cowboy ranch hands on the range or gangbangers lip syncing hip hop records on the corner, nor are we all bible belt right wing fundamentalists who listen to Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Fox News (all hail to the Murdoch dynasty and peace be to him in this time of peril!) while drinking Budweiser beer and watching NASCAR races on TV.

Americans can be very generous, warmhearted and intellectually curious too, it's just information that does not make the news or fits some stereotype that exists out there. The country is usually atop any list of nations that gives medical and agricultural aid to poorer nations, and is always there in a large presence during emergencies to help other nations during famines, earthquakes and other natural disasters. Yes, it is still a super power with questionable policies, but one in decline. It's political power and corporatism is not actually representative of the people who live here, at least not the vast majority I hope. Yes, there are stupid Americans, spoiled and egocentric, ill informed and selfish ones, but they are everywhere in the world, not to mention Americans are mostly people who immigrated or are decendents of those who did, so outside our native populations that where almost annihilated, we are originally all from somewhere else in the world. (my neighbors to the right of our house are from Senegal, while to left, they are from Honduras).

Darwin does not represent all Americans, and neither do I, or for that matter, anyone else who lives here, although I do blame the entire problem of New York City upon the Dutch!

Somehow I don't think I am telling you anything you already know, so a big part of me still thinks you were joking, so why am I writing this and why oh why have I always said that I'd rather live in Europe? ... OK, forget everything I wrote above and to hell with those stupid Americans!!!! Hey Homer, help me out here...

[Homer]

Americans can be very generous, warmhearted and intellectually curious too, it's just information that does not make the news or fits some stereotype that exists out there.

This is true, or at least it used to be true. I don't really know anymore. I sometimes think that we are witnessing the effects of four generations of TV/movie culture. Media culture that is controlled by powerful people with an agenda which does not include engendering creative and critical thinking.

Yes, it is still a super power with questionable policies, but one in decline. It's political power and corporatism is not actually representative of the people who live here, at least not the vast majority I hope.

Where is Thomas Paine when you need him? I believe that the average Yankee is stultified by the shaky economic situation and by the deliberate fog laid down by the politicians. They are worried about making the payments on the Visa card and the car and house rather than what US policy is doing in the rest of the world. How many Americans know that the US military maintains over 700 foreign bases? Their elected representatives often have dual citizenship and their voting and policies reflect that. This last point really concerns me.

Somehow I don't think I am telling you anything you already know, so a big part of me still thinks you were joking, so why am I writing this and why oh why have I always said that I'd rather live in Europe? ... OK, forget everything I wrote above and to hell with those stupid Americans!!!! Hey Homer, help me out here...

Why Europe?

I'll always do what I can to help a Bro!

[Kalisurfer]

And being anti Israel seems to be the new thing. I would love to discuss this issue. I have never been there, but I spent 5 years taking drugs and hanging out in and around a jewish dumpster behind the Hadassah charity thrift store that was in the Allston neighborhood where the original Krishna Temple had been. Why the focus on and singling out of Israel as a human rights violator while ignoring the rest of the mideast and world? Why is there no movement for the right of return or compensation for jews expelled from middle eastern countries and Europe and compensation for all the killings?

I would imagine that all the monetary and military aid that the USA gives Israel, and the way the Palestinians are treated in the their settlements is why being anti Israeli is big in leftist political circles. Israel is a democracy though and does also have a political movement that wants to give Palestinians their own land and recognize them as a country, but that is something anti-Israelis do not like to recognize much in its political attacks on Israel.

Israel also contains a a politically powerful base of fundamentalist Zionist Jews in government, which feels that it is Biblically ordained for them to control and govern that area, plus they have powerful allies in the West with fundamentalist Christians who see them as protecting the home of Christianity for the end days, a barrier against Islamist takeover. Then there is the geo-political arm of seeing Israel as a general ally against the spread of fundamentalist Islam, a power broker and hedge against Iran, Syria and the presence of Hamas and Hezbollah in the Palestinian territories. It is so complex, that those who study it professionally cannot agree on how and where problems start and end, nor how to deal with it all.

I see the monetary, military and political support that Israel gets and has gotten since its founding as a way for the West to unofficially compensate the Jews for being expelled from Europe, Russia and North Africa, not to mention the factor of the WWII Holocaust, though we are getting so removed historically from that moment that its perspective gets lost in the current political debate concerning the Middle East.