KC resources on spiritual abuse Options

[0Sophia0]

Greetings.



I know three books on spiritual abuse from the Christian perspective:

Healing Spiritual Abuse and Religious Addiction
Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, The: Recognizing and Escaping Spiritual Manipulation and False Spiritual Authority Within the Church
Toxic Faith
They are written from the perspective that the person would heal from the spiritual abuse and remain on the path.
(As opposed to many general books that require that one leave the path and become less or more atheist/irreligious/non-spiritual.)


Are there similar resources from the KC perspective?

So far, I have only been able to locate two articles:

Best Intentions: Dynamics of Spiritual Abuse by Bhaktavasala Dasa
and
Spiritual Pain and Painkiller Spirituality: Issues of Spiritual Abuse, Religious Addiction, and Dependency in ISKCON by Diana Lorenz

But they don't really make many suggestions as far as an individual's recovery is concerned.



Thank you!

[babu]

BG As It Is comes to mind.

[Dhyana]

BG As It Is comes to mind.

C'mon babu, don't prank around a new member. She still doesn't know you are not to be taken seriously

Welcome Sophia!

[0Sophia0]

BG As It Is comes to mind.

C'mon babu, don't prank around a new member. She still doesn't know you are not to be taken seriously

Oh, his signature is telling!

Welcome Sophia!

Thank you!

[Dhyana]

BG As It Is comes to mind.

C'mon babu, don't prank around a new member. She still doesn't know you are not to be taken seriously

Oh, his signature is telling!

Yes, for those who have eyes to see. Babu is our court prankster and many an enlightened sentence has come out of his signature. He is an antidote par excellence for spiritual abuse.

Speaking of which, I agree with your observation that Christian anti-abuse books assume one stays within the faith (one or two more titles, beside the ones you listed, come to mind), and that there doesn't seem to exist any KC-related material dealing with healing from spiritual abuse. I have never come across any such text. Several of our topic threads at GR touch upon the subject but it's more ad hoc, not a coherent text.

I left ISKCON a good while ago, though. If any such texts came later I might not know.

[ePiTau]

For the records: babu is to be taken seriously.
Failure to seriously take babu seriously undermines any hope for sons, cattle, victory over one's enemies and other Vedic blessings.

[metamorphosis]

Yes, Babu-rahu, must be taken seriously, as you would towards any other God, and being a God fearing person

[Dhyana]

Bhaktavatsala was a very cool guy, an Australian (or Kiwi?) devotee. Our two articles were an attempt to organize the material we had gathered for the Radhadesh seminar in 1999. Here is how Bhaktavatsala describes the aim:

One of the aims of our seminar, and this article, is to help devotees become more conscious of spiritual abuse, since acknowledgement obviously precedes cure (Stafford and Hodgkinson, 1991, pp. 90, 93). Such seminars and articles will increase open discussion in the areas of spirituality, morality, ethics, and the rights and responsibilities of members of the Krsna consciousness movement. These discussions not only serve to identify the nature, symptoms, and consequences of spiritual abuse, but also begin the process of healing, en­couraging devotees to come to terms with possible negative experiences and foster their confidence as individuals and as members of ISKCON. This will ultimately help in making commitments to reduce abuse, within the movement and as individuals.

This is how I thought about it too. We were preoccupied with raising the general awareness in ISKCON about spiritual abuse, what it is, that we are not transcendental to it, that we should strive for non-abusive dynamics, plus some support for our line of thinking from within the Vaisnava tradition.

I was hoping to help shift the balance toward a less abusive environment, and also to alert the devotees so that they would protect themselves, not become victims... or perpetrators. (Let's stop shooting. Then we can attend to our wounded.)

At that time I was still a devotee but questioning more and more. In the article I still censored myself, sticking to the view that Vaisnavism or the Krishna consciousness movement was not abusive in itself, the teachings were not abusive, only their misinterpretation or misapplication. But in my own mind I was thinking that the abusive streak ran deeper than that. Deeper than what was possible to say in an ISKCON context. I couldn't fully exonerate Prabhupada, for example. With scripture it was easier, but even there were certain teachings I couldn't but see as abusive. Religion as such, at least any authoritarian religion, I was beginning to view in this way.

I had enough faith left to try and make the ISKCON experience less abusive to the devotees. But thinking of recovery, of healing, would have required a deeper faith. It was becoming clear to me that healing would have to be on a different foundation. Not KC.

But then it would require a different positive ideology as well, some definition of what is good, meaningful. Like the humanist ideology. I did not feel at home there either. Now I feel closest to the existentialist thinking, which is more about accepting the absurdity of existence and making it bearable. Not the best foundation for something as positively charged as healing.

There are people who have the ability to fully believe in their religion and devote themselves to healing spiritual abuse that might occur there. The Christian books Bhaktavatsala and I drew upon were good, moving examples. It may have something to do with one's personality or the nature of one's faith. If one has been raised in a religion in a spiritually nourishing way, one may have a unique gift to give.

Where in ISKCON / GV does one find this kind of material? As I said earlier, I cannot think of any such source. But you could perhaps look at some materials written by the gurukula alumni. There might also be some devotees who do professional counseling, perhaps in the USA, who deal with recovery.

I would guess, though, that this kind of material would be kept relatively private, and used in confidential settings. Healing requires affirming what one feels and thinks, one's sense of self. I just cannot imagine how one could get ISKCON approval for openly advocating techniques such as exploring one's needs and desires, releasing one's anger (at Prabhupada for example?) or directly confronting one's abuser if it is someone in an authority position.

[0Sophia0]

Thank you for your input, Dhyana!

Krishna says in the Bhagavad-Gita that one kind of pious people who begin to render devotional service to Him are the distressed.
But my experience with devotees has been that if one has problems, of any kind, then one better stay away from devotees, even if one has an affinity for Krishna. From the Hindu perspective which is deeply immersed in the notion of karma and reincarnation, this probably seems like a straightforward and easy enough thing to do. For most Westerners, it is not.

It seems to me there are only two kinds of people who can thrive in ISKCON: one are those who lack self-awareness and introspection so much that nothing can get to them; the others are those who are so advanced that they are able to individually, privately deal with any problem that comes up. Those who are inbetween - which is most people - just don't fit in.

[Brainiac]

I couldn't fully exonerate Prabhupada, for example. With scripture it was easier, but even there were certain teachings I couldn't but see as abusive. Religion as such, at least any authoritarian religion, I was beginning to view in this way.

Do you mind if I ask which, off the top of your head, teachings you see as abusive? I have long been curious to form a collection of these things as I fantasised about carrying out a complete dissection of GV beliefs (and possibly Hinduism itself) to show how inherently abusive certain aspects of the theology are, so it would be nice to hear from others just in case they've spotted something I missed. Or at least, some things that they feel were particularly relevant to their situation?

I just cannot imagine how one could get ISKCON approval for openly advocating techniques such as exploring one's needs and desires, releasing one's anger (at Prabhupada for example?) or directly confronting one's abuser if it is someone in an authority position.

Hasn't this already happened in some cases, such as Dhanurdhara Swami who was a guru? It is still sad to see that such figures only seem repentant and make reparations only after they've been arraigned in an Iskcon court, rather than doing it spontaneously out of a guilty conscience or something.

[kalki]

Are there similar resources from the KC perspective?

I think the only resources that may exist for devotees and by devotees would be

1. alternative groups advocating that Prabhupada wasn't wrong but the new gurus are wrong, and that would be found among the various ritvik groups or the IRM
(but they don't exactly deal with techniques to recover from abuse, but inform you of how you got abused and how to be clear from it)

2. articles and writings of people who left Iskcon and found a different path and are able to analyze concisely what their experience was so that folks may read it and identify with their struggle (authors that come to mind are Vrajabhumi on wordpress, Jagadananda's blogs, and even good old Monkey on a stick)

I think none of the above serves the purpose exactly being requested here but shows that Krishna Consciousness is still in a phase of reaction and recoiling without the maturity to reflect and make a proactive solution. Frankly, most people heal by freaking out and leaving never to be seen again so they don't bother writing any healing manuals. Looks like a good market for someone who is ready!

[kalki]

Come to think of it, I made personal progress by reading accounts of others who were brainwashed by other institutes and religions. This site includes the whole vast array of accounts and experiences and some general resources for moving on and away from cults in general:

http://www.rickross.com/

[0Sophia0]

I had enough faith left to try and make the ISKCON experience less abusive to the devotees. But thinking of recovery, of healing, would have required a deeper faith. It was becoming clear to me that healing would have to be on a different foundation. Not KC.

But then it would require a different positive ideology as well, some definition of what is good, meaningful.

Yes. I myself can't think of such a positive ideology. So moving on is difficult.

There are people who have the ability to fully believe in their religion and devote themselves to healing spiritual abuse that might occur there. The Christian books Bhaktavatsala and I drew upon were good, moving examples. It may have something to do with one's personality or the nature of one's faith. If one has been raised in a religion in a spiritually nourishing way, one may have a unique gift to give.

Yes, those books are moving examples. They tend to make a point of combining scriptures in such a manner that nobody is demonized and with a happy ending for all. It's apparent that they speak in goodwill and compassion.

I think it is possible to combine KC resources in such a manner as well - but I have never really seen it in full, just bits here and there.
Most devotees I have known seem to be of the kind to come up with such a combination of the teachings that aim to silence the other person. It's a lot like what is in Christianity known as Pharisees, legalism and performance orientation - and much discussed there, but not in GV.

I would guess, though, that this kind of material would be kept relatively private, and used in confidential settings. Healing requires affirming what one feels and thinks, one's sense of self. I just cannot imagine how one could get ISKCON approval for openly advocating techniques such as exploring one's needs and desires, releasing one's anger (at Prabhupada for example?) or directly confronting one's abuser if it is someone in an authority position.

Yes. And so it feels wrong somehow to find and stick to such a combination of GV teachings that would seem conducive to healing (although I am quite sure such a combination is possible), as it would surely be a combination that devotees in general would not approve of.

(I've quickly learned, for example, that karmis are supposed to be despised, not pitied - even though both replies can be supported with the teachings.)

[0Sophia0]

Come to think of it, I made personal progress by reading accounts of others who were brainwashed by other institutes and religions. This site includes the whole vast array of accounts and experiences and some general resources for moving on and away from cults in general:

http://www.rickross.com/

I know such resources. But I find myself unable to use them - it feels like I am doing something wrong.

What did you tell yourself, how did you "give yourself permission" to move on?

[kalki]

What did you tell yourself, how did you "give yourself permission" to move on?

To answer this in a helpful way, I would want to know more what you mean by this? It could mean anything. I mean I don't know how KC affected you and why.

You could clarify publicly or PM privately if you can clue me in.

If I had to take a stab at this, without also myself divulging too many deep dark secrets...One day, I made a decision, that I didn't agree with some of the pressures I was feeling, and so I just thought it was better to take space. I thought just changing my ashram from bramachari to fringy would help me settle my mind and continue some service by email or on Saturday's or something, but eventually I faded out of touch because I was getting too many extracurricular hobbies.

I got involved in a variety of societal movements but kept my faith inward and used it to communicate messages covertly without letting anyone know where it was coming from, but then eventually, I had processed so much with new techniques which others in community had which helped them deprogram from sexual abuse, or whatever, that I actually discovered many a thing about myself more than I thought imaginable.

Then I started reading critques on the net, no matter how raunchy and negative they were, like PADA or various Vaishnava News Sites. There is also a really good comical enquirer style newspaper that you should check out called "The Hing" which is modeled a bit after "The Onion." Humor is always healing I find.

So actually I found the PADA link while researching other cults on the Rick Ross site. Even as a devotee, I used to talk about how brainwashed some groups out there are, such as even the Catholic Church. So finding out that I had been brainwashed was like a surprise to me sort of because I always thought my brain was getting cleaned and not washed. I had even read some books published I found at the library claiming that out of all cults, Hare Krishna was considered a real religion.

Anyway, when I found that what some people were suffering from were things I was suffering from, then I felt better and not alone, and even a bit angry that it happened.

But in the end, I felt Prabhupada was right when he said, "Cheaters will be cheated" and Hansadutta further elaborates on that by calling it "Spiritual life at a discount."

Laws of Karma still stand in my book, but it is also important to read the right book to understand karma. I don't believe that Gita has a good explanation so I much prefer the explanation of the 12 links in Buddhism. Anyway, that book I told you about, Early Buddhism and the Bhagavad Gita, eventually cleared all my doubts on whether I had been duped or not.

[kalki]

Laws of Karma still stand in my book, but it is also important to read the right book to understand karma. I don't believe that Gita has a good explanation so I much prefer the explanation of the 12 links in Buddhism. Anyway, that book I told you about, Early Buddhism and the Bhagavad Gita, eventually cleared all my doubts on whether I had been duped or not.

Even the Buddha around 600 BC was telling the Brahmins not to be duped. One of the Buddha's meditation instructors was like,

"Yo, Sid, I'm like seeing this white light and shit, and it is like so cool...you can feel it brother?"

And then Buddha was like, "Yo, what's up with that Brahmajyoti sheeeet? Yo, it ain't about that at all. Brother man, we gotta come back and help out all the sentient beings who are trapped in samsara."

And the teacher was like, "Yo that's bunk yo. I ain't going back dere. This light is finer than fine. I gonna stay right here yo, so you can just go over there in the muck stuff and do your thing if you want. I ain't gonna stop you, but I warned you, iaght?

Buddha was like, "Brother man, you only gonna take rebirth like dat, you fooool. You gonna be coming back after that white light session some 5 thousand year later, yo. You gonna be born like some damn philanthropist or sum-thing. Who don't know sheeeet. You gots to meditate on the sunya which is non-inherent to yaw goddam existence. Yo later nigga, I gots to alleviate some suffering while you looking all pretty and sheeet."

And thus the Buddhist canon was formed in the 4 Noble Truths and many came to hear. Years later, Shankaracharya was like, "Yo, I am all over that sheeet. Brother speaking some sense. Maybe I can just grab a few ideas from this cat and but like say, ya man, Shiva said all that sheeet. Don'ts forget about Shiva ji, cause he da one gonna get you to back to the light where gonna be safe."

And then many years later in the modern times, Bhaktivedanta Swami was like, "Damn yo, Buddha gots it going on, but yo, like where da kirtan at? Yo, I gonna write this song that disses the sunyavadis, and gonna be a hit, and aint no body gonna question much, so its eye-ight."

nirvisesa-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarine

And then, so many living entities were none the wiser.

But according to Early Buddhism and the Bhagavad Gita, The Bhagavad Gita was a mere reaction to the wisdom of the Buddha. If you buy the book online, well then I got it on my shelf and we could bust out a new thread called...

Proving the historical inaccuracies of the GV tradition through comparison with other contemporary movements

[0Sophia0]

But in the end, I felt Prabhupada was right when he said, "Cheaters will be cheated" and Hansadutta further elaborates on that by calling it "Spiritual life at a discount."

But isn't this like using SP's wisdom to dismiss SP??

[metamorphosis]

But in the end, I felt Prabhupada was right when he said, "Cheaters will be cheated" and Hansadutta further elaborates on that by calling it "Spiritual life at a discount."

But isn't this like using SP's wisdom to dismiss SP??

The Vedas also can be contradicted by the Vedas, there is a lot of contradictions all over, take the ones that fit, throw out the others.

[0Sophia0]

The Vedas also can be contradicted by the Vedas, there is a lot of contradictions all over, take the ones that fit, throw out the others.

On the grounds of what?
With what justification?

[kalki]

But in the end, I felt Prabhupada was right when he said, "Cheaters will be cheated" and Hansadutta further elaborates on that by calling it "Spiritual life at a discount."

But isn't this like using SP's wisdom to dismiss SP??

Is there a problem to do that? The US government created a constitution to protect the rights of the people against crime, and sometimes the government violates the inalienable rights of the people. And we take members of the establishment to court over it.

If your karate master teaches you a to become a black belt, and then he descreates the sacred codes of a warrior, do you fight him, or blindly look the other way, and reject all the teachings he gave you?