sheer stupidity, bizarre GV beliefs Options

[Homer]

*Believing that a person is more 'connected' then you are to god and can help to connect you to god.

*Believing that eating food without offering it to god is a sin.

*Believing that wearing a necklace made from a devotee's body will stop the Yamaduttas from taking your soul.


I am having a difficult time posting as I can't see my cursor and I can't insert type. Is this only happening to me?

[ras]

CC Antya-lila Chap 12 Text 37
petangi-gaya kare dandavat-namaskara govinda kahe,--`srikanta, age petangi utara'
TRANSLATION
When Srikanta offered obeisances to the Lord, he was still wearing his shirt and coat. Therefore Govinda toId him, "My dear Srikanta, first take off these garments."
PURPORT
One is forbidden to enter the Deity room or offer anything to the Deity while wearing a shirt or coat. in the tantras it is said:
vastrenavrta-dehas tu yo narah pranamed dharim
svitri bhavati mudhatma sapta janmani bhavini
"Anyone who offers respects and obeisances to the Deity while wearing garments on the upper portion of his body is condemned to be a leper for seven births."

At least I will have a lot of company in hell as a leper with all the women and many others who did not appear half-naked while offering mangala-aratik!

[zanardi]

Alas, and I thought I would be safe and away from pictures of naked bodies and all those lusty people by wandering carelessly in the forests! Now it seems that the racetracks in cyber space where I mostly spend my meditative and alert hours is the only safe haven in this dangerous world. Always follow your instincts.

Just see. Simple, stupid and safe. Complete mindfulness and no naked distractions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVDu2gPwwPM

[Homer]

If you wear special underwear and never ejaculate semen eventually it will rise up your spinal column and enter into your brain which makes you understand god.

[Brainiac]

Just see. Simple, stupid and safe. Complete mindfulness and no naked distractions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVDu2gPwwPM

Ha! Looks great. You're welcome to join me in my world anytime. Nice distractions too!

[Brainiac]

If you wear special underwear and never ejaculate semen eventually it will rise up your spinal column and enter into your brain which makes you understand god.

This is one of the chief ideas of Kundalini Yoga, and I was familiar with this idea and many others from my pre-ISKCON past. In fact, I was very surprised to find mention of it in Prabhupada purports/Bhagavatam ideas, and initially wondered what Kundalini Yoga had to do with Vaishnavism.

[Homer]

If you wear special underwear and never ejaculate semen eventually it will rise up your spinal column and enter into your brain which makes you understand god.

This is one of the chief ideas of Kundalini Yoga, and I was familiar with this idea and many others from my pre-ISKCON past. In fact, I was very surprised to find mention of it in Prabhupada purports/Bhagavatam ideas, and initially wondered what Kundalini Yoga had to do with Vaishnavism.

Nice to see your return here, Mr Brainiac.

As time passes I find myself embarrassed by my dalliance with GV and all things religious. The only way I could tolerate the depravity of the devotees around me was to busy myself with making music and to associate with a very select group of devotee friends who also could see that the GV philosophy was inflaming the passions of the mentally unstable.

As for this thread – the whole of the GV teachings are 'sheer stupidity' in my eyes. The strange idea that we need to be reconnected with god by another human is nothing more than a business plan.

Take the idea that eating bhoga is a sin, for example. If I give my two-year old a grape I am pleased and happy to see him enjoy the delicious fruit. Why would I expect him to offer it back to me? If one believes there is a god, and that god supplies everything, why would he curse his own children for enjoying what he has provided for them?

If the only lack is Krishna Consciousness then why do the enlightened ones' have such a need for money?

[ras]

Alas, and I thought I would be safe and away from pictures of naked bodies and all those lusty people by wandering carelessly in the forests! Now it seems that the racetracks in cyber space where I mostly spend my meditative and alert hours is the only safe haven in this dangerous world. Always follow your instincts.

Just see. Simple, stupid and safe. Complete mindfulness and no naked distractions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVDu2gPwwPM

In this connection I just happened to be watching a documentary on the Darlington Raceway. In the words of one NASCAR veteran; "this track ain't called the Lady in Black for nothin'. It will slap you to the ground as soon as you think you have it figured out".

Now, whenever you meet someone who has an answer for everything you know their fate. (But who on earth could that be?)

[ras]

Take the idea that eating bhoga is a sin, for example. If I give my two-year old a grape I am pleased and happy to see him enjoy the delicious fruit. Why would I expect him to offer it back to me? If one believes there is a god, and that god supplies everything, why would he curse his own children for enjoying what he has provided for them?

From Adi Sankara's Gita (Alladi Mahadeva Sastri 1897 version);

"The righteous, who eat the remnant of the sacrifice, are freed from all sins; but sin do the impious eat who cook for their own sakes". In a footnote it's explained that "for their own sakes" means without satisfying the Gods by sacrifice, study of scriptures and by offspring.

Sounds to me like if you just sacrifice your two-year old to the Gods you're a free man. After all, I already made you study the scripture!

[Homer]

The sacrifice routine is common in so many religious traditions. Have a look through the bible and this blood sacrifice theme appears to be the chief method of worship; stipulated by god, himself. This reminds me of farming folk who would sacrifice a virgin and sprinkle her blood to appease the gods and to make the soil fertile. If I were god, I doubt I would be pleased by brazen bribery.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8624269.stm

“The severed head and torso of a man has been found in a temple in the Indian state of West Bengal in what the police say is a case of "human sacrifice"...”

[Homer]

"One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables." - Romans 14:2

I don't get it. Why is diet dependent on faith?

[ras]

"One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables." - Romans 14:2

I don't get it. Why is diet dependent on faith?

As per the quote, I think lack of faith would cause one to take up a diet. Out of fear, one might eat only vegetables (and of course, the odd human sacrifice).

[Pingala]

"One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables." - Romans 14:2

I don't get it. Why is diet dependent on faith?

"It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man." Jesus in Matthew 15:11

In other words: Speaking kind words to all around you is more important than following rules and regulations to the dot and being a jerk in the process (the Zealots in the Bible).
I think it all comes down to awareness. Offering food to God to me means being aware that the food is valuable, that people have worked hard for it to get there, that nature has worked hard for it to get there and that whoever cooked it has (hopefully) put their love into doing so. It's thankfullness, thats all. All these rules and regulations, in my view, seem to be pointing to just that: becoming aware of the moment and being thankful for it. If you see God not as a seperate entity somewhere, but a force deep inside everything, including Yourself, the thankfullness and "offering" becomes all-encompassing. "Sin" is just that which makes me feel seperated from the Wholeness of life, God. The only "punishment" for that is feeling stressed, not enjoying the moment and losing a second of precious life itself.

[Brainiac]

"One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables." - Romans 14:2

I don't get it. Why is diet dependent on faith?

As per the quote, I think lack of faith would cause one to take up a diet. Out of fear, one might eat only vegetables (and of course, the odd human sacrifice).

I agree. And rather, considering the emphasis on vegetarianism in these traditions, why is faith dependent on diet?

If we aren't our bodies, what difference does it make what we put into our mouths before entering supposed spiritual realms in supposed spiritual bodies?

[Brainiac]

Take the idea that eating bhoga is a sin, for example. If I give my two-year old a grape I am pleased and happy to see him enjoy the delicious fruit. Why would I expect him to offer it back to me? If one believes there is a god, and that god supplies everything, why would he curse his own children for enjoying what he has provided for them?

Ahhhhhhh, I hear the immortal words of Omar Khayyam resounding in your voice :

Why, - if the Grape is Allah's Gift, who dare
Blaspheme the teeming cluster as a snare?
A Blessing, we should use it, should we not?
And if a curse, why, then, who set it there?

For us He baits a trap at every turn;
Our lusts, if we resist, will deeper burn.
Does He command us shun the odour, sight,
Sound, taste and touch for which He makes us yearn?

If He has made our senses, and enchains
Our thoughts to love, and heats and swells our veins,
And bids us sow and grow the seed, - can He
Damn us if we react as he ordains?

Can He with crafty pitfall, hidden gin,
Beset the way we are to wander in, -
Can He predestine us to evil so - ,
And justly still impute our fall to sin?

(Rubaiyat 201-204)

As time passes I find myself embarrassed by my dalliance with GV and all things religious. The only way I could tolerate the depravity of the devotees around me was to busy myself with making music and to associate with a very select group of devotee friends who also could see that the GV philosophy was inflaming the passions of the mentally unstable.

Ha! This is in the next two verses of Rubaiyat:

Ah! "He is bountiful and gives", they say,
"The strength we need to bear our load each day."
Yet, who but slaves would cringe to One that had
Coerced our race to live that wretched way?

So, leave the wits to wrangle and discuss,
And solve these problems, if they can! And thus,
We, in our corner of the hubbub, shall
Make game of what is making game of us. (Rubaiyat 205-206)

Good to see and hear from you too!

[Homer]

"One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables." - Romans 14:2

I don't get it. Why is diet dependent on faith?

"It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man." Jesus in Matthew 15:11

In other words: Speaking kind words to all around you is more important than following rules and regulations to the dot and being a jerk in the process (the Zealots in the Bible).
I think it all comes down to awareness. Offering food to God to me means being aware that the food is valuable, that people have worked hard for it to get there, that nature has worked hard for it to get there and that whoever cooked it has (hopefully) put their love into doing so. It's thankfullness, thats all. All these rules and regulations, in my view, seem to be pointing to just that: becoming aware of the moment and being thankful for it. If you see God not as a seperate entity somewhere, but a force deep inside everything, including Yourself, the thankfullness and "offering" becomes all-encompassing. "Sin" is just that which makes me feel seperated from the Wholeness of life, God. The only "punishment" for that is feeling stressed, not enjoying the moment and losing a second of precious life itself.

What is Jesus saying? Words are more important than deeds!

This verse is an excellent example of the topic in this thread, and a potent reminder of how schizo the bible is. Jesus says that in this verse, however, there are many rules in the bible instructing what can and can not be eaten. And before you say that Jesus nullified the old rules consider this verse: [i]Matt 5:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." [/i]

I have a choice to eat without causing unnecessary suffering to our brother animals. I doubt that the mother cow would appreciate my kind words spoken to her as I was eating her infant calf.

Being a hypocrite, in my book, defiles the man.

As far as the acknowledging the value of food – that's OK – but why is god supposedly saying that eating bhoga is a sin?

[Homer]

Such lucidity is salve for the weary soul.

Why, - if the Grape is Allah's Gift, who dare
Blaspheme the teeming cluster as a snare?
A Blessing, we should use it, should we not?
And if a curse, why, then, who set it there?

[ras]

As far as the acknowledging the value of food – that's OK – but why is god supposedly saying that eating bhoga is a sin?

All this just goes to prove that one needs to leave scripture on the shelf at some point and accept some guidence from within according to your own self. There's no need to carry over an "all-or-nothing" approach to your alternative spirituality as with bizarre GV beliefs and superstitions. Even if you like the idea of Krishna or Shiva as God, you have to admit - they're pretty wild. Their religion should be wild too. In fact, I think you should make it up as you go along.

This for example, is something I have no use for and never cared about, even at the peak of my GV zealotry..

According to the instructions of Lord Vishnu, every kind of sinful activity that can be found in the material world takes its residence in this place of (grains) foodstuff. Whoever follows Ekadasi is freed from all sins and never enters into the hellish regions. If one doesn’t follow Ekadasi because of illusion, he is still considered the utmost sinner. For every mouthful of grain that is eaten by a resident of the earthly region (on Ekadasi), one receives the effect of killing millions of brahmanas. It is definitely necessary that one give up eating grains on Ekadasi. I very strongly say again and again, ‘On Ekadasi, do not eat grains, do not eat grains, do not eat grains!’ Whether one be a kshatriya, vaishya, shudra, or of any family, he should follow the lunar day of Ekadasi. From this the perfection of varna and ashrama will be attained. Especially since if one (even) by trickery follows Ekadasi, all his sins become destroyed and he very easily attains the supreme goal, the abode of Vaikuntha.”

[Homer]

As far as the acknowledging the value of food – that's OK – but why is god supposedly saying that eating bhoga is a sin?

All this just goes to prove that one needs to leave scripture on the shelf at some point and accept some guidence from within according to your own self. There's no need to carry over an "all-or-nothing" approach to your alternative spirituality as with bizarre GV beliefs and superstitions. Even if you like the idea of Krishna or Shiva as God, you have to admit - they're pretty wild. Their religion should be wild too. In fact, I think you should make it up as you go along.

This for example, is something I have no use for and never cared about, even at the peak of my GV zealotry..

According to the instructions of Lord Vishnu, every kind of sinful activity that can be found in the material world takes its residence in this place of (grains) foodstuff. Whoever follows Ekadasi is freed from all sins and never enters into the hellish regions. If one doesn't follow Ekadasi because of illusion, he is still considered the utmost sinner. For every mouthful of grain that is eaten by a resident of the earthly region (on Ekadasi), one receives the effect of killing millions of brahmanas. It is definitely necessary that one give up eating grains on Ekadasi. I very strongly say again and again, 'On Ekadasi, do not eat grains, do not eat grains, do not eat grains!' Whether one be a kshatriya, vaishya, shudra, or of any family, he should follow the lunar day of Ekadasi. From this the perfection of varna and ashrama will be attained. Especially since if one (even) by trickery follows Ekadasi, all his sins become destroyed and he very easily attains the supreme goal, the abode of Vaikuntha."

“All this just goes to prove that one needs to leave scripture on the shelf at some point and accept some guidence from within according to your own self. “

I agree completely and wholeheartedly!

I am a vegan precisely based on this.





Note: I am having a very difficult time posting as the cursor does not appear and I am unable to insert text. I am forced to use OpenOffice and paste into this forum.

[Dhyana]

As far as the acknowledging the value of food – that's OK – but why is god supposedly saying that eating bhoga is a sin?

All this just goes to prove that one needs to leave scripture on the shelf at some point and accept some guidence from within according to your own self. There's no need to carry over an "all-or-nothing" approach to your alternative spirituality as with bizarre GV beliefs and superstitions. Even if you like the idea of Krishna or Shiva as God, you have to admit - they're pretty wild. Their religion should be wild too. In fact, I think you should make it up as you go along.

This for example, is something I have no use for and never cared about, even at the peak of my GV zealotry..

According to the instructions of Lord Vishnu, every kind of sinful activity that can be found in the material world takes its residence in this place of (grains) foodstuff. Whoever follows Ekadasi is freed from all sins and never enters into the hellish regions. If one doesn’t follow Ekadasi because of illusion, he is still considered the utmost sinner. For every mouthful of grain that is eaten by a resident of the earthly region (on Ekadasi), one receives the effect of killing millions of brahmanas.

This one was a faith-crusher for me too. I just could not accept that this was justice, that the punishment was proportionate to the offence. (In the version I remember, eating even a homeopathic amount of grains equaled killing one's guru.