The FUTURE of AMERICA, The Possibilities Options

[darwin]

You've been posting here long enough for us to know that even you Darwin, don't believe in all this stuff out of the ISKCON preaching playbook.

Everything of our experience in the ISKCON social order is a twisted deception of the true Veda. In ISKCON Vaishas rule by pretending to be Brahmin and trying to make everyone into Sudra. I don't think anyone is made into Brahmin. A devotee yes. But nobody who is not Brahmin ever wants to be. It is only the words of these pretenders that have made this false ideal of Brahmin something Sudras and Vaishas aspire to. When I say I am Brahmin it is only that I am humbly begging for my poor feet to be washed, they tell us. But they are all of them Vaishas; bookworms, scribes, shopkeepers, heads of counting houses. I am Brahmin and you are not and now I have stolen a piece of your ego. Admit it and serve me. Or lie to yourself saying it is not your ego I am touching as you compete with me to get it back.
.

[Homer]

I am Brahmin and you are not and now I have stolen a piece of your ego. Admit it and serve me. Or lie to yourself saying it is not your ego I am touching as you compete with me to get it back.
.

You crack me up, Darwin. I'll wash your feet.

[Kalisurfer]

You've been posting here long enough for us to know that even you Darwin, don't believe in all this stuff out of the ISKCON preaching playbook.

Everything of our experience in the ISKCON social order is a twisted deception of the true Veda. In ISKCON Vaishas rule by pretending to be Brahmin and trying to make everyone into Sudra. I don't think anyone is made into Brahmin. A devotee yes. But nobody who is not Brahmin ever wants to be. It is only the words of these pretenders that have made this false ideal of Brahmin something Sudras and Vaishas aspire to. When I say I am Brahmin it is only that I am humbly begging for my poor feet to be washed, they tell us. But they are all of them Vaishas; bookworms, scribes, shopkeepers, heads of counting houses. I am Brahmin and you are not and now I have stolen a piece of your ego. Admit it and serve me. Or lie to yourself saying it is not your ego I am touching as you compete with me to get it back.
.

I need to know just how many feet it is, or meters for our Euro friends, in terms of your ego ... before I even consider washing them on Janmastami day?

I can always ask Homer once he is finished though, but he's fast and experienced at such things due to having little ones around, plus I would need instructions on the diapers, so we may have to wait till my humble parenting love is truly uncovered and qualified to serve you.

[Kalisurfer]

You've been posting here long enough for us to know that even you Darwin, don't believe in all this stuff out of the ISKCON preaching playbook. I know you miss your Istaghosti site and want to stir the pot and bait someone to get their hair frizzed to enliven the forum, but I doubt its going to work in this way. You're going to have get more creative to get the old regulars stirred up here, for this attempt was rather transparent, though perhaps you've seen the light, shaved up and are now distributing books in Boston, who knows? :whistling:oston, who knows?

Sounds like he got you stirred up though Kali.

Just pointing toward out of context wild statements, perhaps I've been too bored and tired of late, but I've been known to be soup sometimes, beet borscht or simply red beat to some, so you may be right.

Yep, I've spilled again, definitely spilt, geez it can get messy being soup in a forum. Like a good friend once told me here, it's all in the recipe and how patient the cook is, but I don't listen ... no, I just spill.

So what to do? Play with the nemesis or ignore, well I think I'm supposed to ignore, but that's not on the menu currently, plus my ingredients naturally go toward being sweet and sour, the type that needs a spoon to be sipped but all that is used is forks, so it spills, so what to do, for it's the new GR but I am not? Time to change the recipe perhaps, time for new ingredients, for if not, I simply stew, get stirred, stew, then get stirred again.

Writing as self therapy, making soup, spilling soup, then cleaning it up, making more, over and over, ahhh, maybe it is simply dissipating after being burned, gone stale, mold on the beets as the beat goes on, on and on.

Yes, I'm beet, yep, really beat, time to go me thinks, time oh time, it goes so quickly ... it even sometime spills.

[Gerard]

New American rules: Loot a shop, go to jail. Loot a nation, get a bonus.

This is as a good a time as any to look at what is perhaps the single most important factor of why the USA is a rather problematic nation; its thorough christianness.

It seems to be a country mentally living in the 19th century and technologically in the 21th.

65 % of the people go to church on Sunday. In Europe 3%.

You can frequently notice the apocalyptic mentality; "The commies are taking over!!!" for instance.

You can see the 19th century prudishness still with many people.

The mentality of the Victorian age with its policy of little wars (Zulu, Maori, Ashanti, Afganistan, etc) to create an Empire is copied by the USA in the 20th and 21th century (Somalia, Iraq, Afganistan), with God on their side of course.

The idea with many Republicans that only God can help the USA now.

Also the idea that when you are rich you're blessed by God is very prevalent in the USA with its consequence that when you're poor the Lord apparently hates you.


"I fear the man of a single book" (Thomas Aquinas).

Just a few thoughts.

[darwin]

It seems to be a country mentally living in the 19th century and technologically in the 21th.

65 % of the people go to church on Sunday. In Europe 3%.

You can frequently notice the apocalyptic mentality; "The commies are taking over!!!" for instance.

It sounds like over in Europe maybe the state is the church. But I don't sit in America here pretending I know. And communism is nothing more than a branch of the modern Christian church. And the communists did take over much of America. I only post flamboyantly and rhetorically because I feel folks here are too cowardly, lazy or disinterested for anything more. If you people are willing I am capable of debating against your ignorance of American history point by point. I wish the US government would stop invading and stomping down the various third world or Slavic peoples. Perhaps the Europeans who keep cheering on the domestic expansion the US socialist state in America and defaming those who fight against it like the Tea Party would like for the US to invade their home? They would get a taste of who these people are who run our state like the Afghans and parents of kids abused in American schools.

[darwin]

Why does everyone here complain about the US government invading whatever other countries, but cheer on the US government's attempts to occupy America and impose communist control over our economy and our schools?

[darwin]

We just had an earthquake here in Boston an hour and a half ago and I didn't even notice. Am I really that insensitive?

http://www.boston.com/Boston/metrodesk/201...l?p1=News_links

[Kalisurfer]

I only post flamboyantly and rhetorically because I feel folks here are too cowardly, lazy or disinterested for anything more. If you people are willing I am capable of debating against your ignorance of American history point by point.

Wow, someone thinks rather fondly superior of himself today ... and I'm saying this rather mildly.

The Communist ranting was at first alarming, then funny, now boring, but unloading on everyone else as being problematic while you come across as all knowing is annoying, well what else can I say, I'm not a mod anymore, just another member, but is this the best you can do? I'm really seriously ready to push the ignore button on you Darwin, for there is little substance in what you are saying, but a lot of confusion and, as you say, ... "flamboyant rhetoric."

I like creativity, even hyper fiction seeping into what members write, but I'm finding this constant drumbeat of everything being Communist and you knowing all as far from being actually a creative act and actually becoming a sign of disrespect toward the intelligence and spirit of the few members who actually post here anymore. Maybe I'm taking your recent contributions too seriously and should treat it as just another joke or ambiguous brain fart to chuckle and shake ones head at ... not sure, can't really pin point it, but it's something that I will no longer address in answering any of your posts anymore, for I really do feel that I am finished with it all ... finally.

[Dhyana]

Me likes "ambiguous brain fart"!

[Kalisurfer]

New American rules: Loot a shop, go to jail. Loot a nation, get a bonus.

This is as a good a time as any to look at what is perhaps the single most important factor of why the USA is a rather problematic nation; its thorough christianness.

It seems to be a country mentally living in the 19th century and technologically in the 21th.

65 % of the people go to church on Sunday. In Europe 3%.

You can frequently notice the apocalyptic mentality; "The commies are taking over!!!" for instance.

You can see the 19th century prudishness still with many people.

The mentality of the Victorian age with its policy of little wars (Zulu, Maori, Ashanti, Afganistan, etc) to create an Empire is copied by the USA in the 20th and 21th century (Somalia, Iraq, Afganistan), with God on their side of course.

The idea with many Republicans that only God can help the USA now.

Also the idea that when you are rich you're blessed by God is very prevalent in the USA with its consequence that when you're poor the Lord apparently hates you.


"I fear the man of a single book" (Thomas Aquinas).

Just a few thoughts.

Well, as someone who has lived a long time in the USA, I find most of these figures and characterization as being a little extreme and not totally being close to my personal experience or to the actual reality of living here. There is no doubt a current of conservative Christian thinking that runs through the population, but the apocalyptic mentality is on the extremes of the political spectrum or in fundamentalist religious practictioners, not the consensus of the majority of people who live here.

The figure of 65% of the American population go to church on Sunday is possibly way overblown, with annual Gallup polls showing it in the low 40%, with many experts saying that it is actually most likely in the 20's. They say that most church going people exagerate their claims of being regular weekly church goers, for it looks bad for a believer to say anything but the optimal.
For reference, see;
Hartford Institute for Religion Research
Religious Tolerance .ORG
Crosswalk.com


The country is becoming more and more multicultural year by year, it being a land of immigrants from all over the world, and the old white Anglo-Saxon historic Christian heirarchy is slowly diminishing. There is a backlash that is easily seen happening in this country, with conservative Christian whites trying hard to stay in power and be vocal in the news with their heated rhetoric, but I can't help seeing it die away with time. It no doubt is taking time for a true representation of the diverse population to be represented in Government and big business, but that day is coming very soon.

There is no 19th century mentality in the forefront that I see here, not sure what you mean by this comment?

I sometimes so sense hostility toward the United States on this forum, and the characterization of its people as pretty negative, which I am beginning to find rather surprising. Maybe we deserve it, for they do exist here in some meaningful numbers by all means, and it may be deserving based on the nations' political stances and overseas adventures, but it certainly does not reflect the majority of people that I see and hear by living here.

[Gerard]

New American rules: Loot a shop, go to jail. Loot a nation, get a bonus.

This is as a good a time as any to look at what is perhaps the single most important factor of why the USA is a rather problematic nation; its thorough christianness.

It seems to be a country mentally living in the 19th century and technologically in the 21th.

65 % of the people go to church on Sunday. In Europe 3%.

You can frequently notice the apocalyptic mentality; "The commies are taking over!!!" for instance.

You can see the 19th century prudishness still with many people.

The mentality of the Victorian age with its policy of little wars (Zulu, Maori, Ashanti, Afganistan, etc) to create an Empire is copied by the USA in the 20th and 21th century (Somalia, Iraq, Afganistan), with God on their side of course.

The idea with many Republicans that only God can help the USA now.

Also the idea that when you are rich you're blessed by God is very prevalent in the USA with its consequence that when you're poor the Lord apparently hates you.


"I fear the man of a single book" (Thomas Aquinas).

Just a few thoughts.

Well, as someone who has lived a long time in the USA, I find most of these figures and characterization as being a little extreme and not totally being close to my personal experience or to the actual reality of living here. There is no doubt a current of conservative Christian thinking that runs through the population, but the apocalyptic mentality is on the extremes of the political spectrum or in fundamentalist religious practictioners, not the consensus of the majority of people who live here.

The figure of 65% of the American population go to church on Sunday is possibly way overblown, with annual Gallup polls showing it in the low 40%, with many experts saying that it is actually most likely in the 20's. They say that most church going people exagerate their claims of being regular weekly church goers, for it looks bad for a believer to say anything but the optimal.
For reference, see;
Hartford Institute for Religion Research
Religious Tolerance .ORG
Crosswalk.com


The country is becoming more and more multicultural year by year, it being a land of immigrants from all over the world, and the old white Anglo-Saxon historic Christian heirarchy is slowly diminishing. There is a backlash that is easily seen happening in this country, with conservative Christian whites trying hard to stay in power and be vocal in the news with their heated rhetoric, but I can't help seeing it die away with time. It no doubt is taking time for a true representation of the diverse population to be represented in Government and big business, but that day is coming very soon.

There is no 19th century mentality in the forefront that I see here, not sure what you mean by this comment?

I sometimes so sense hostility toward the United States on this forum, and the characterization of its people as pretty negative, which I am beginning to find rather surprising. Maybe we deserve it, for they do exist here in some meaningful numbers by all means, and it may be deserving based on the nations' political stances and overseas adventures, but it certainly does not reflect the majority of people that I see and hear by living here.

The reference to the Victorian age is just simply that the USA is now like the UK in that period; with its christianness of that period, with the prudishness (including the UK hypocrisy) of that period, of the imperialism of that period, the raw capitalism of that time and the lack of a welfare state as in those Victorian days but at the same time the ridiculous thought that the USA can take the moral high ground which was beaten into everybody by the massive propaganda in Highschool history books, TV and other media and including things like pledging allegiance to the flag in school for years and years.

This situation might partly explain the hostility that you feel sometimes. But if you knew things about the Netherlands you might also feel some hostility at times. There are some black pages.

But when living in a certain country, especially a parochial and insular country like the USA (as also with the UK) it is difficult to see the broad picture; you see too many details that do not fit the picture. Despite the multi-culti society which is still mainly a segregated society anyway with the Chinese in their Chinatown and the Koreans in their little Korea etc.

Another possibilty is of course that I am totally wrong. That church attendance figure seems to have been too high.

[darwin]

The Communist ranting was at first alarming, then funny, now boring, but unloading on everyone else as being problematic while you come across as all knowing is annoying, well what else can I say, I'm not a mod anymore..

Back in the 1980s I saw a video of some famous political dissidents in the Soviet Union. They were standing on the balcony of their apartment, I think, and they were yelling some angry rant at the person with the camera standing below in the street. I was surprised that they did not seem like nice people at all. I think there is a great lesson to learn here.

I stayed away for most of the Summer to allow things develop under the group dynamic here without me needing to be blamed. Much of my insensitivity here is simply my refusal to recognize and conform to much of the group dynamic here. As I have said before, I find it to be the same thing we had in ISKCON. But in a way, my place here and the reaction to me here is often similar to what I found in ISKCON. I would love to be able to stop this and enter into a discussion of facts.

What particular point of mine do you take issue with? As I said my flamboyant rhetorical style is used only because I find nobody is willing to discuss the facts that might undermine their belief system. I am willing to debate whatever point you take issue with. How about political prisoners in the 20th century?

I grew up in a university town. My father was a professor of sociology. I spent my formative years learning and believing in political views that people were usually exposed to only in college. I have spent much of my life studying politics and history. I do think I will find error if I am allowed to explore your understanding of facts. I have changed my opinions many times. Even since being active on these forums. I would like you to be able to experience the same. I have spent years full time studying. I do actually know of the things I am talking about and I am very excited to show you and make you proud of me.

.

[darwin]

When people are forced to live under an overreaching state, in a democracy people who would otherwise keep to themselves and tend to their own life are forced to promote, campaign and vote for coercive state policies to further whatever social agendas they favor. There is nothing about the Christians in America that make them so much worse than other folks. Much of their influence in Republican politics is due to the fact that they provide volunteers for work in campaigns. Under American law, one can work full time as a volunteer for an election campaign, as my mother always did for the Democrats, but donating real money (over $1,000?) to pay for campaign workers is outlawed. I would rather have government out of our business and let the Christians run their own life and I run mine. Actually the Christians on their own without the government are really cool. We used to drop acid and go around them. I forced myself to hallucinate once and I saw Jesus at the place they put on passion plays. Instead of a cross he was carrying a big stone to build a pyramid. I thought that meant I had become the Marxist that would make my father proud. But maybe it was something else?

[darwin]

I thought that meant I had become the Marxist that would make my father proud. But maybe it was something else?

Living under the darling of the 1980s American Left for a few years really changed him.

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=mugabe+mutilated

[darwin]

The thing is that if I was calling the US government Fascist and Rightist in its wars and other wrongdoings I would be rewarded here with agreement and praise. But I understand the actual situation in America with the wars and other problems as being from a government of the triumph of Leftism and Socialism and what I am prepared to argue, actual communism. I beg you to enter into discussion and debate. My whole life I have studied this subject matter. I think the issue of political prisoners is a good start. Let us start with the children. Are you aware that the rounding up of Japanese families and putting them into internment camps was the work of the Left?

http://www.google.com/search?q=dr+seuss+internment+camps

[Homer]

Corporatocracy is not Communism.

View at Youtube

[Homer]

Opposing war is un American...

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2011/08...com-vs-the-fbi/

"The FBI vs. Antiwar.com

Secret documents reveal government spy-and-smear campaign...

Like the main character in “Asylum,” these days I pick up the phone with some trepidation: do I want to call this person and say that with Big Brother listening? Do I want to incriminate someone – a friend, a relative, an acquaintance? How careful do I have to be in what I say?..."

[darwin]

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2011/08...com-vs-the-fbi/

"The FBI vs. Antiwar.com.. Secret documents reveal government spy-and-smear campaign..
Like the main character in “Asylum,” these days I pick up the phone with some trepidation..

Here in Boston last winter Justin Raimondo gave his great lecture on the history of the Left and Right and antiwar movements. He and I talked for a minute in front of the church afterwards. What if the FBI was watching? I probably should have kissed him.

[Kalisurfer]

The reference to the Victorian age is just simply that the USA is now like the UK in that period; with its christianness of that period, with the prudishness (including the UK hypocrisy) of that period, of the imperialism of that period, the raw capitalism of that time and the lack of a welfare state as in those Victorian days but at the same time the ridiculous thought that the USA can take the moral high ground which was beaten into everybody by the massive propaganda in Highschool history books, TV and other media and including things like pledging allegiance to the flag in school for years and years.

This situation might partly explain the hostility that you feel sometimes. But if you knew things about the Netherlands you might also feel some hostility at times. There are some black pages.

But when living in a certain country, especially a parochial and insular country like the USA (as also with the UK) it is difficult to see the broad picture; you see too many details that do not fit the picture. Despite the multi-culti society which is still mainly a segregated society anyway with the Chinese in their Chinatown and the Koreans in their little Korea etc.

Another possibilty is of course that I am totally wrong. That church attendance figure seems to have been too high.

I don't disagree with you at all with the points you brought up Gerard, it's more a just how much of it pervades the culture and thinking of the American population that I question, a matter of quantity and not content and quality of the points you made. The Christian Right has a firm hold and grasp in the conservative political circles, which has pretty much taken over the Republican party. Candidates like Rick Perry and Michelle Bachman have strong ties to this wing, as many other congressman and senators do also. It is possible to have this right wing philosophy take hold of the population as the economy declines and jobs are not made, but many are working to see that this does not happen, trying to expose the far right Christians thinking of some of these candidates and the groups who support them, before they try to hide it all while going mainstream in a general election.

Not all of the USA is insular, most large cities have an influx of new immigrants coming and going, while the area I live in has no real Korea, Pole, Irish or China towns, which people moving into areas that are affordable and where jobs are, rather than like in the early 20th century where they moved to where their nationality made neighborhoods. There are of course these type of neighborhoods too, but assimilation happens most often in the second generation of newcomers.