ISKCONy Habits Options

[Strange Pilgrim]

I was over at Tapati's "Uppity Women" site and read her article "Hare Krsna Women: Blending Cultures In The Hare Krsna Movement". Something she wrote really struck me, and I wanted to say something about it on this forum. She wrote:

"The idea of "pollution" as it is called in India, or "contamination" as we called it, was something we gradually internalized. Even though I have not been following all of these rules for some time--consciously--I still eat with my right hand and when I cook I wash my hands almost continuously, so firmly have I been conditioned. I can consciously override these standards, as when I use both hands to eat a large sandwich, but I must do so deliberately."

I find that I have the same thing going on. Even though my religious orientation is one hundred percent Roman Catholic now, there are ISKCONy habits that have stuck with me, even all these years later. Like Tapati, I do the habitual, constant hand washing all day, but especially while cooking. I also still:

am squeamish about eating with my left hand

don't taste food during preparation, even to check the seasoning, though I'm not intending any "offering" for it

don't wear shoes in the house, but leave them in a special shelf by the front door

use a lota (plastic watering can, actually) and wash with water after going to the bathroom instead of using toilet paper

cook with hing instead of onions and garlic unless a recipe absolutely requires the latter

when I can manage it, drink without touching the glass touch to my mouth, doing that devotee thing of holding my face back and pouring the liquid in from a height (not really possible with a ceramic mug, though; it's easier with those stainless steel glasses from India, a few of which I still have and use).

ISKCONers would tell me that I hold on to these habits because I'm still an "eternal servant of Krsna" (though I deny it and fight it) and still given to sattvic tendencies. Others would say it's pure conditioning, like Tapati mentions, irrational superstitions left over from overtraining.

Do any of the rest of you find yourselves still habituated to these devotee-esque behaviors? Which ones?

[Gerard]

squeamish about eating with left hand

don't taste food during preparation

don't wear shoes in the house

don't put holy books (or certain pictures) on just any surface

bring certain objects to forehead

although I don't use a mala anymore, I would not like someone else to see it (or her)

[Strange Pilgrim]

bring certain objects to forehead

Yes, now that you mention it, I still do that too. Only I then "Catholicize" it by then doing the full crossing over myself, the "In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". But the raw instinct to touch things to my forehead as an act of purifying an "offence", or as an act of reverence, remains.

[metamorphosis]

My dad who never ever ever was a devotee of any type or following, does many of the things listed in the first post here.

When i told him that he was just smearing poop all over his butt, he started using a lota.

When i pointed out that he should use his left hand to wipe his ass, and his right hand to eat, it just made sense to him, so he does so.

He never wears shoes into the house, he has never done so.

These things are not Iskcon habits, just smart for mammals.

[0dayalu0]

These are mostly Indian cultural habits. These are my Americanized habits.
You can wear shoes in my home but not in my temple room.
A lota and toilet paper are in the bathroom, as you like. I don't know what anyone else does.
I still use my left hand to wipe, and my right hand for eating food.
No book regarded as Holy by anyone should be put on a floor or place of disrespect in my home.
My mouth touches glasses unless I drink from yours, whereby I will not let it touch my mouth. Some people are germ conscious.
When I enter ‘their’ church or mosque I do what ‘they’ do so as to not appear ignorant or stand out.
I do not require my guests to fall prostrate before my Deities as I do.
My beads stay in my temple room, anyone who goes there could see them, bead bag is optional.
I personally have no need to taste a preparation before it is taken but that is because I am an expert ex-Radha Damodara cook. My wife however tastes many times before she is done with a prep. I would prefer to take food that has not been tasted by another if possible. I’m not that particular though.
I don’t cook onion or garlic preps usually but I will if that’s what my family wants (rarely). I eat these if they are put in front of me by my wife, I’m not strict about these, but no meat or fish or egg are ever eaten by anyone in my home.
All these I regard as external, cultural things. KC, by it’s essence, it’s inner concept, transcends all cultures as I see it. That’s my world.

[Strange Pilgrim]

Again with the Iskcon bashing or Hare Krishna lifestyle bashing!

I was under the impression that this forum was for ex-Iskcon people (and people who support and understand them), who have been harmed and bashed BY Iskcon, and that we could bring things up, ask questions, discuss things, WITHOUT being accused of attacking Iskcon. I thought this was what this entire project was about.

This site is called Gaudiya REPERCUSSIONS. This topic is a (I thought lighthearted) look at one of those repercussions. I never imagined it would offend anyone, especially since Tapati originally brought it up in an article she wrote.

Remarks like this make me want to not post anything on this site again at all, like when I first signed up. Why should I, when it just makes me feel like I'm back in the movement? When there are current Iskcon members on here ready to castigate people who discuss the peculiarities of Iskcon?

[Gerard]

Again with the Iskcon bashing or Hare Krishna lifestyle bashing!

I was under the impression that this forum was for ex-Iskcon people (and people who support and understand them), who have been harmed and bashed BY Iskcon, and that we could bring things up, ask questions, discuss things, WITHOUT being accused of attacking Iskcon. I thought this was what this entire project was about.

This site is called Gaudiya REPERCUSSIONS. This topic is a (I thought lighthearted) look at one of those repercussions. I never imagined it would offend anyone, especially since Tapati originally brought it up in an article she wrote.

Remarks like this make me want to not post anything on this site again at all, like when I first signed up. Why should I, when it just makes me feel like I'm back in the movement? When there are current Iskcon members on here ready to castigate people who discuss the peculiarities of Iskcon?

I also thought it was a lighthearted way of looking at leftovers from a time past. But on a forum everybody can post his/her opinion, however discongruent with the rest.

[0Aran0]

Again with the Iskcon bashing or Hare Krishna lifestyle bashing!

...Remarks like this make me want to not post anything on this site again at all, like when I first signed up. Why should I, when it just makes me feel like I'm back in the movement? When there are current Iskcon members on here ready to castigate people who discuss the peculiarities of Iskcon?

It would appear this is becoming something of an increasing problem on GR; I found myself in exactly your position about a month ago Strange Pilgrim...

The problem (for me) is I can, in some respects, sympathise with both sides here; certain aspects of my behaviour are, undoubtedly, 'Indianised' - and I am in no way uncomfortable or apologetic with or about that (though I certainly don't expect others to follow my questionable example - or not to find it 'funny') - it is just who I am.

[zanardi]

I think most of us are just trying to remember what we used to do in the temple. For many of us it also happened quite some time ago.

Bringing sacred or valued things to my forehead I did by accident when I got my book from the publisher. It just happened in the heat of the moment. Only afterwards did I realize it, and the book is not very favourable towards Iskcon!

Otherwise I do none of those things that were mentioned in this topic.

[metamorphosis]

Again with the Iskcon bashing or Hare Krishna lifestyle bashing!

I was under the impression that this forum was for ex-Iskcon people (and people who support and understand them), who have been harmed and bashed BY Iskcon, and that we could bring things up, ask questions, discuss things, WITHOUT being accused of attacking Iskcon. I thought this was what this entire project was about.

This site is called Gaudiya REPERCUSSIONS. This topic is a (I thought lighthearted) look at one of those repercussions. I never imagined it would offend anyone, especially since Tapati originally brought it up in an article she wrote.

Remarks like this make me want to not post anything on this site again at all, like when I first signed up. Why should I, when it just makes me feel like I'm back in the movement? When there are current Iskcon members on here ready to castigate people who discuss the peculiarities of Iskcon?

You are right Prabhuji!

I guess i meant, that some things are just good thinking, like much of what you called Iskcon Habits. And to see these good things used to bash iskcon is silly. I am all for bashing iskcon, but more for the bad stuff, not the good. Like lets bash their child molestations, or their false guru program with rubber stamps and all. Or the manipulations, or good ol' boy networks.

Sorry if i made you feel bad, my mistake.

[babu]

whenever i'm at a bar, i always like to measure the size of my brain next to other women's there and its true, mine is always twice as big

[ePiTau]

whenever i'm at a bar, i always like to measure the size of my brain next to other women's there and its true, mine is always twice as big

Twice as big must be. This is the psychology! I have seen. They keep big dog for sex.

[Dhyana]

Again with the Iskcon bashing or Hare Krishna lifestyle bashing!

Where do you perceive bashing here, Meta? I haven't seen anyone here saying, "I have just caught myself using my left hand to wipe myself, how stupid/barbaric/oppressive, I've gotta stop immediately!"

We are just taking stock of these internalized cultural "leftovers" from the movement we left behind. I find these memories rather funny and even fond.

[Kalisurfer]

Again with the Iskcon bashing or Hare Krishna lifestyle bashing!

I was under the impression that this forum was for ex-Iskcon people (and people who support and understand them), who have been harmed and bashed BY Iskcon, and that we could bring things up, ask questions, discuss things, WITHOUT being accused of attacking Iskcon. I thought this was what this entire project was about.

This site is called Gaudiya REPERCUSSIONS. This topic is a (I thought lighthearted) look at one of those repercussions. I never imagined it would offend anyone, especially since Tapati originally brought it up in an article she wrote.

Remarks like this make me want to not post anything on this site again at all, like when I first signed up. Why should I, when it just makes me feel like I'm back in the movement? When there are current Iskcon members on here ready to castigate people who discuss the peculiarities of Iskcon?

I don’t think you should feel judged or castigated for posting what you did Strange Pilgrim. You have not bashed ISKCON in my opinion and were just talking about the cultural lifestyle behaviors that we learned in the temple and how we may or may not still practice any of those. Depending on how much the KC lifestyle is accepted or rejected at this stage of our life, these lifestyle behaviors may stay or go.

You where defiantly asking your question to members here who do not practice KC anymore, and it is interesting to see if any of these behaviors are still practiced by them as habit since there is no spiritual reason anymore to do them. Some practices may make sense to a few for reasons outside spirituality or may still make sense spiritually though outside the context of Gaudiya Vaisnavism.

GR is a safe place to discuss issue like this, and although there are members who still practice KC here and may at times present a counter argument or idea, you are no means to feel like you are under scrutiny and being judged by whatever past authority you experienced that disallowed such discussion and honesty to take place.

Looking forward to this topic staying alive and also to your contribution to GR, Strange Pilgrim.

[Dhyana]

One cultural ISKCON leftover in me has to do with my behavior around men (friends and work colleagues excepted). I still have to brace myself to accept it when a man holds up a door for me. I'd rather they went ahead and left me behind.

Also, I gaze downwards or fix my gaze at infinity when in proximity of scantily dressed men. At the gym, for instance. I keep eye contact very cursory with male strangers, even in contexts that are perfectly neutral and safe.

You wouldn't believe it, coming from a lusty woman like me!

[Strange Pilgrim]

I don’t think you should feel judged or castigated for posting what you did Strange Pilgrim. You have not bashed ISKCON in my opinion and were just talking about the cultural lifestyle behaviors that we learned in the temple and how we may or may not still practice any of those. Depending on how much the KC lifestyle is accepted or rejected at this stage of our life, these lifestyle behaviors may stay or go.

You where defiantly asking your question to members here who do not practice KC anymore, and it is interesting to see if any of these behaviors are still practiced by them as habit since there is no spiritual reason anymore to do them. Some practices may make sense to a few for reasons outside spirituality or may still make sense spiritually though outside the context of Gaudiya Vaisnavism.

GR is a safe place to discuss issue like this, and although there are members who still practice KC here and may at times present a counter argument or idea, you are no means to feel like you are under scrutiny and being judged by whatever past authority you experienced that disallowed such discussion and honesty to take place.

Looking forward to this topic staying alive and also to your contribution to GR, Strange Pilgrim. 

Thanks, Kalisurfer; I feel reassured. And thanks also to you others who offered reassuring words.

[Prisni]

I don't follow any of those things, unless I have a very good reason to do it.
And maybe surprisingly, probably for ISKCONites also, is that I don't break the four regulative principles. I don't follow them, so breaking them does not mean anything for me, and I don't go through the extra effort to do it. Except for that I drink tea regularly.
Naturally I don't eat onion, garlic, meat etc., since I just don't like it. And I love ghee.
I cook kind of Indian-inspired food, but that I did even before coming to ISKCON.

Somehow I never understand the left hand only logic, since to clean the left hand you need to use the right, and both get equally contaminated or clean. Maybe in India, where you don't clean your hands afterwards, due to lack of water? On the altar you use both hands, so it is obviusly possible to make both clean, even from a ritualistic viewpoint.

[metamorphosis]

Thanks Strange Pilgrim for the thread, very good.

I went back and took out the sentence you did not understand. And i tell you i am sorry once more.

Your being here is great, thanks for your association. (phrase from Iskcon)

[Ayyapan]

I have developed a reverse ISKCONy habit. I do not rise early in the morning to start off the day by hearing about sex. But I may very well, at any time - in almost any circumstance, suddenly start to speak very enthusiastically about celibacy. This drives some people around me nuts!

[zanardi]

One cultural ISKCON leftover in me has to do with my behavior around men (friends and work colleagues excepted). I still have to brace myself to accept it when a man holds up a door for me. I'd rather they went ahead and left me behind.

Also, I gaze downwards or fix my gaze at infinity when in proximity of scantily dressed men. At the gym, for instance. I keep eye contact very cursory with male strangers, even in contexts that are perfectly neutral and safe.

You wouldn't believe it, coming from a lusty woman like me! 

Beware of those lusty men lurking in the gyms! They are always looking for their next victim. You are doing right by not looking at them, because they would immediately translate your shy-Dhy gaze into a tempting message to follow you into the shower.

That is going on.