Well Presented Scientific View, of religious sentiment Options

[Homer]

oh I have risn Homer , thou nodst the eyes to see!

A photograph taken by a bona-fide™ witness will do.

[angrezi]

I am reasonable, what better witness than reason?

[Homer]

I am reasonable, what better witness than reason?

Humility is haughtiness...

War is peace...

Ignorance is knowledge...

Killing non devotees is compassion...

[Homer]

First show me a Timingila fish.  Then we can discuss the authority of scripture.

I love honey.  I just don't think your bees are better because they are Indian.

Scripture is poetics.

Precisely.

That is why it does not belong either to the history section or the manuals for living area.

It should be properly on the literary fictional shelf.

How to decide which is literal and which...?

Pick a swami....any swami...puts your money down....and takes your chances...

Chorus:

My swami's better than your swami

My swami's better than yours

My swami's better than your swami

My swami's better than yours

[0dayalu0]

First show me a Timingila fish.  Then we can discuss the authority of scripture.

I love honey.  I just don't think your bees are better because they are Indian.

Scripture is poetics.

Precisely.

That is why it does not belong either to the history section or the manuals for living area.

It should be properly on the literary fictional shelf.

How to decide which is literal and which...?

Pick a swami....any swami...puts your money down....and takes your chances...

Chorus:

My swami's better than your swami

My swami's better than yours

My swami's better than your swami

My swami's better than yours

Scripture has one unique nature. That it deals with a subject that is beyond all of the material senses' power to encompass or know. In this way their meaning is called hidden or confidential. Scrirture causes a soul to be able to ponder subjects that would otherwise be off limits to his investation. If they are examined only by our limited senses and intellect, that can only produce limited material result. The subject, God, (adhoksaja), is immeasurable, and infinite. Could you see the infinite with your finite eye, capture Him within your limited mind? You are too tiny, it is a foolish approach to the actual subject of all scripture. Krishna tells us to know ourselves, surrender to Him and He will give you the transcendental eye to know and see Him, He will guide you from within, you can follow His love. Krishna is the only Swami, all others are His servants.

[Homer]

What is this idea of atheism?

Isn't saying A-theism like saying un-penis? What is this un-penis? Just what is that supposed to mean?

Ask one of the ladies.

If man was created in god's image, then whose image is woman made from?

[Homer]

Scripture has one unique nature. That it deals with a subject that is beyond all of the material senses' power to encompass or know.

So what if my teacher tells me that he is the only representative of god™ because his teacher said the same thing?

And my teacher turns out to be a c%$ks**ker (no discourtesy to honest cocksuckers).

And then you walk down the street and you see another Santa Claus.

Mommy, why did you lie to me?

Don't worry darling, it's all symbolic and hidden.

Here, look at 'hidden' Govardhan Hill.

Only special devotees can see it.

I see it! Mommy, I see it!

[zanardi]

[quote=dayalu,Jan 22 2007, 05:46 AM]
[/quote]
Scripture has one unique nature. That it deals with a subject that is beyond all of the material senses' power to encompass or know. In this way their meaning is called hidden or confidential. Scrirture causes a soul to be able to ponder subjects that would otherwise be off limits to his investation. If they are examined only by our limited senses and intellect, that can only produce limited material result. The subject, God, (adhoksaja), is immeasurable, and infinite. Could you see the infinite with your finite eye, capture Him within your limited mind? You are too tiny, it is a foolish approach to the actual subject of all scripture. Krishna tells us to know ourselves, surrender to Him and He will give you the transcendental eye to know and see Him, He will guide you from within, you can follow His love. Krishna is the only Swami, all others are His servants.

[/quote]

Why is it so difficult?

[Homer]

Why is it so difficult?

I have several Jehovah's Witnesses' visiting every couple of weeks. I enjoy quoting the Babble to them and watch their faces when I mention passages that are so weird and sick that even they are taken aback. The answer they have is that one needs to seek the elders to explain these, more intimate, and difficult to understand sections of their scriptures.

Such as:

Numbers (31:1-54)

Under God's direction, Moses' army defeats the Midianites. They kill all the adult males, but take the women and children captive. When Moses learns that they left some live, he angrily says: "Have you saved all the women alive? Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." So they went back and did as Moses (and presumably God) instructed, killing everyone except for the virgins. In this way they got 32,000 virgins -- Wow! (Even God gets some of the booty -- including the virgins.)

Same principle. Totally obscure scripture needs qualified brainwasher to wash brain and help one see the inner meaning.

In other words:

BUSINESS.

[Adrija]

What is this idea of atheism?

Isn't saying A-theism like saying un-penis? What is this un-penis? Just what is that supposed to mean?

If man was created in god's image, then whose image is woman made from?

The Goddess.

[Adrija]

First show me a Timingila fish.  Then we can discuss the authority of scripture.

I love honey.  I just don't think your bees are better because they are Indian.

Scripture is poetics.

Precisely.

That is why it does not belong either to the history section or the manuals for living area.

It should be properly on the literary fictional shelf.

How to decide which is literal and which...?

I have little or no knowledge of Australian culture but in bookshops over here, poetry is not classified under literary fiction.

[angrezi]

my point is I have seen up close how academic religion debunkers operate, and they skirt aeround the same unknowns and speculations and projections. Scientists have found out some cool shit, but adding a few extra years to my existential crisis by stem cell research and pharmaceuticals isnt going to help me today, nor does it prove or disprove G-O-D or some unexplained forces that seem to be operating in the universe.

Mostly they point our how historically there is no empric proof of religions' being real and the stupid and cruel stuff religious morons have done to each other through history, and how sc ience , or what reletively little they know in the grand sceme (although it has growm rapidly in terms of a short period of time) if there is one, is empiric and can be reproduced. Cool things like cloning sheep and black holes iguess.

That is why I am just as sick of know-it-all academics and scientists as the religious bozos. They cannot help me other than drugging me physically, while religion may drug one mentally. So what. Whoope de do. (Read Aldous Huxley for some of his predictions about this drugging of the population in the future). What am I supposed to do, just be happy being a cog in the machine in this artificial 'modern' life that science has helped produce? Look around, innocent people will still die, humans are generally brutish, depressed, and life is still short (no matter how long it is) to paraphrase Bacon, whether we are religious brutes or scientific brutes.

I often see people (like my father) burnt out on religion, get all into the anti-religion of Dawkins and others like it is some new religion (which I maintain it is).

I'd rather smoke a joint and let the religionists and the scientists argue about how little each one of them knows about day to day existence and how to make it happy.

This post has been edited by angrezi: Jan 22 2007, 04:10 PM

[Tapati]

People who rely on scripture always seem to forget that it was written by people not very different from themselves. They can say it was divinely inspired--but if the writers were taking divine dictation, how do we know they didn't make some errors? Or that the entity they took dictation from was truly divine and not just some alternate dimension con artist or sociopath. (Oh look, wouldn't it be amusing to tell these people to kill everyone but the female virgins? Maybe we can also tell them to rub mud into their belly button if they want true spiritual insight.)

[Homer]

my point is I have seen up close how academic religion debunkers operate, and they skirt aeround the same unknowns and speculations and projections.

My perspective is that they, at least, help some to break out of their fearful mental box.

[Homer]

People who rely on scripture always seem to forget that it was written by people not very different from themselves. They can say it was divinely inspired--but if the writers were taking divine dictation, how do we know they didn't make some errors? Or that the entity they took dictation from was truly divine and not just some alternate dimension con artist or sociopath. (Oh look, wouldn't it be amusing to tell these people to kill everyone but the female virgins? Maybe we can also tell them to rub mud into their belly button if they want true spiritual insight.)

Virgins indeed.

Why all this fascination with sex and how dirty it is?

And how do people take these lessons as being guides for living a wholesome life in peace and with goodwill?

Hate is Love...

Pain is ecstasy...

Remembering stories is realizing god...

[Homer]

First show me a Timingila fish.  Then we can discuss the authority of scripture.

I love honey.  I just don't think your bees are better because they are Indian.

Scripture is poetics.

Precisely.

That is why it does not belong either to the history section or the manuals for living area.

It should be properly on the literary fictional shelf.

How to decide which is literal and which...?

I have little or no knowledge of Australian culture but in bookshops over here, poetry is not classified under literary fiction.

Anyhow, I hope you catch my drift.

[Adrija]

No, Homer - my drift is that when something is poetic, it neither fits into a fact or a fiction category.

Is this fiction? -

"I dreamed my genesis in sweat of death, fallen
Twice in the feeding sea, grown
Stale of Adam's brine until, vision
Of new man strength, I seek the sun."
Dylan Thomas.

[Homer]

On another forum I have just read:

"I often wonder, what is the cutoff point for believers? How much contradiction, nonsense, inconsistency, and outright bullshit are they willing to deal with or even postulate themselves in order to maintain the legitimacy of their beliefs? How can reality not smack one in the face at some point? It would be humorous if it wasn't so sad.

Instead of burdening oneself with such pointless questions about hell and it's nature, simply consider the more sensible alternative...that it does not exist..the same as heaven

The first obstacle that you may come up against is that you need a substitute for it. People can't believe that there is nothing...why not?

My honest to goodness take on where we go when we die is precisely nowhere. I don't remember where I read this but it has always seemed such a perfect statement and given me a certain comfort about death:

"I was dead for billions of years before I was alive. When I'm done being alive I suppose it will be no different."

That may not be the exact quote, but not remembering where I read it I can't reference it.
My wife thinks that this is a terrifying statement. I find it to be poetic and extremely comforting and reassuring. It is reassuring of the importance of our lives. It reminds me that what I have in life is all I will ever have and it strengthens my appreciation for it. I will not take the chance of cheapening it by imagining that everything gets better or that my true existence begins once I'm dead. Such a religion is disrespect for life. It also reassures me that I will not long for life when I am dead. I will not miss my loved ones. I will not be in pain. I think the absence of an afterlife is more comforting than the ambiguity of its two extremes, heaven and hell.
I am lucky to be alive, and I am lucky to have love and relationships in that life. I also think that I'm lucky to be able to enjoy these things with a realistic viewpoint and a true, uncluttered appreciation for them. You should try it.
I have just as much if not more motivation to adhere to the golden rule without god looking over my shoulder. I do not expect anyone else to burn in hell of any sort. I do not expect to be rewarded or punished for my actions anymore so than what society or my peers enforce. All of these views balance out pretty well, make for living a good life, and certainly do not leave you wanting for an explanation behind it all. No questions. At least not any that can only be answered by accepting the supernatural. This philosophy leaves me to my own devices. If religious people would only accept the truth about their human nature, they would realize that they are doing the same thing...they are just making up outlandish reasoning behind it.

Finally, god is not love. In some people's eyes, love is god, which I think is different. But love is still love regardless of what you try to parallel with it and god has never come first. I do not know god and yet I know love. Religious people see this as something to rectify, I see it as something to aspire to."


He's gonna burn, for sure.

[Homer]

No, Homer - my drift is that when something is poetic, it neither fits into a fact or  a fiction category.

Is this fiction? -

"I dreamed my genesis in sweat of death, fallen
Twice in the feeding sea, grown
Stale of Adam's brine until, vision
Of new man strength, I seek the sun."
Dylan Thomas.

Understood.

[Tapati]

I often think that it would be comforting to know that when I die, I cease to exist, simply because that guarantees no more pain of any kind. And your quote, Homer, reminds me of a topic I wanted to introduce, so I will do so.

This post has been edited by Tapati: Jan 22 2007, 06:35 PM