how strong is your faith?, forget book distribution Options

[angrezi]

Lioness in zoo kills man who invoked God

Mon Jun 5, 8:31 AM ET

KIEV (Reuters) - A man shouting that God would keep him safe was mauled to death by a lioness in Kiev zoo after he crept into the animal's enclosure, a zoo official said on Monday.
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"The man shouted 'God will save me, if he exists', lowered himself by a rope into the enclosure, took his shoes off and went up to the lions," the official said.

"A lioness went straight for him, knocked him down and severed his carotid artery."

The incident, Sunday evening when the zoo was packed with visitors, was the first of its kind at the attraction. Lions and tigers are kept in an "animal island" protected by thick concrete blocks. here

[Preyobrazhenya]

Perhaps this is a Russian version of Holiness/Pentecostal Snake Handlers that are occasionally found in the Southern USA? All I can say is that God gave us a brain. God expects us to use it.

[Chanahari]

Yeah, it indeed sounds better than book distribution.

[0Kula-pavana0]

"The man shouted 'God will save me, if he exists', lowered himself by a rope into the enclosure, took his shoes off and went up to the lions," the official said.

he he... is it a test of faith or stupidity? I'm sure there is a special place in the Universe for guys like him...

Lord Krishna protected me quite a few times when I really needed it. I would not dream of demanding Him to serve me for no other reason than my own pride or vanity...

[Dhyana]

Reminds me of a Darwin Award story I tried to send to the Jokes conference in PAMHO, five years ago. The conference organizer did not approve it for posting, though. He somehow didn't find it funny

(found on http://darwinawards.com/darwin/)

Killer Whale rodeo

(6 July 1999, Florida) A naked man was found dead on the back of a killer whale at Sea World in Orlando on Tuesday morning, a victim of drowning or hypothermia in the 55-degree water. "There were no obvious signs of trauma. He wasn't chewed or dismembered," the sheriff's office said. The body had scrapes on it, possibly signifying that the victim had been dragged along the bottom of the tank.
Is a man who swims with Orcas worthy of a Darwin Award? Insights into his bizarre history may help us decide.

He was identified as a marijuana-smoking drifter named Daniel. The South Carolina native carried a tattered Florida DMV card, and police traced the address on the card to a Hare Krishna temple in Miami.

Priest Paul Seaur provided insights into Daniel's month-long stay with the community of six worshippers. He had a great love of nature, writing in his journal and feeding wild birds in the temple garden. Daniel had difficulty adjusting to the religion's 4AM wake-up time, their dietary prohibitions, and their abstinence from liquor, drugs, sex, and gambling. He preferred to dodge work and meditate in the chapel listening to heavy metal music.

Daniel unexpectedly announced that he was taking a vow of silence, which puzzled the Hare Krishnas, since their religion does not urge its members to be silent. He left abruptly in the spring, saying, "I want to be free. I want to travel around."

Daniel left a string of petty offences throughout South Carolina, Washington, Texas and Florida. Just days before his death, he had completed a three day sentence to the Indian River County Jail for stealing a 3-Musketeers candy bar from 7-Eleven. He resumed his vow of silence in court. "The suspect could not speak," a Vero Beach officer reported, so instead he used paper and pen to deny the charge.

Three days later, our intrepid stoner gained admittance to SeaWorld and loitered near the whale pools until 10PM closing, evading the 24-hour security. After stripping to his bathing trunks, he scaled a 3-foot plexiglas barrier, crossed a short stone wall, and climbed into Tillikum's frigid enclosure using steps ringing the 80x100-foot pool. An employee spotted Daniel's nude form draped just below Tillikum's dorsal fin at 7:35AM. His swimming shorts were found elsewhere in the tank. Tillikum apparently tried to remove his shorts with his razor sharp teeth, the medical examiner said.

The nature lover left few clues about his state of mind when he decided to commune with a carnivore the size of a bus. A joint was found inside his pile of clothes, but no admission ticket to SeaWorld. Anonymous park workers made a surprise announcement that this was not the first time Daniel had communed with sea mammals. Two years ago, they recall that he jumped into the manatee tank, which is filled with warmer water and less offensive creatures.

Notes about Tillikum the killer whale:

The 8-year-old mammal is the largest killer whale in captivity, at 22 feet and 11,000 pounds. He was appraised at 1.5 million dollars when purchased by SeaWorld in 1991, where he joined 13 other killer whales. He was considered dangerous, as he was never trained for human contact. Biologists say he probably played with Daniel like a toy, without realizing that he was a fragile human being.

This is not his first encounter with death. Tillikum and two other whales were involved in the drowning of a trainer in Victoria, Canada in 1991. Keltie Byrne fell into the whale tank at the SeaLand Marine Park and was dragged beneath the surface to her watery demise.

Tillikum is a fecund marine predator, and the sire of four calves born during his breeding stay in Florida.

In a comparison between Tillikum and Daniel, it's clear who is higher on the evolutionary scale.

[0Maryada0]

I have seen two video clips of idiots like that. Both survived. One was some Polish guy in a US zoo. Climbed over the fence. Stands there, holding up a Bible. You can hear the zoo visitors say stuff like "What the hell are you doing, you idiot!?" The lions mostly seem confused and lazy.

In another case in Taipei the guy actually gets attacked. I can't find the videos anymore, but here's the article. The second image on that page shows the attack.

I think this has more to do with derangement than faith.

Those who have real faith know not to tempt it.

[metamorphosis]

I have seen two video clips of idiots like that. Both survived.

Cult Pastimes Yee Haw!

At the end of the Corral the rider (cult apologist) and the Bull come to an abrupt stop, Bull lowers his head in the stopping motion at the watering trough, rider ends up in the cold spring watering trough! Ki Jai!

[Subhash]

Matthew 4;7- don't be a moron

[0talasiga0]

..............
All I can say is that God gave us a brain.  God expects us to use it.

You are actually saying more.
If God gave us a brain he gave us faith also.
Your argument defeats itself.

[Preyobrazhenya]

..............
All I can say is that God gave us a brain.  God expects us to use it.

You are actually saying more.
If God gave us a brain he gave us faith also.
Your argument defeats itself.

talasiga:
Could you expand on this because I am not sure what you are saying?
Faith is a choice and not a part of the physical body - a brain is in our bodies whether we want it or not.

GreatGuy Meta: Great pic!

[Dhyana]

The brave Cult Apologist seems to have a lot of fun riding that bull, and seems fully reconciled with the possibility of a falldown!

Talasiga, good point. I wonder though whether faith is something that we can actively use the brain for, the way we can use it for "rational" thinking (quotation marks indicate my awareness of the problematic nature of the term). To me it seems that the brain generates faith but that we can hardly will it, and therefore cannot use the brain for it.

[0talasiga0]

.....
Could you expand on this because I am not sure what you are saying?
Faith is a choice and not a part of the physical body - a brain is in our bodies whether we want it or not. 

..........

Its not too complicated Preyo.
You say God gave us a brain and you acknowledge we have a CHOICE about faith.
Who gave us choice?

[0talasiga0]

........

Talasiga, good point. I wonder though whether faith is something that we can actively use the brain for, the way we can use it for "rational" thinking (quotation marks indicate my awareness of the problematic nature of the term). To me it seems that the brain generates faith but that we can hardly will it, and therefore cannot use the brain for it.

The Lioness's boyfriend from God used his brain to test his faith.

I cannot agree that the brain generates faith. I would be happy to argue about whether the mind generates faith but the brain is just the main nerve and impulse centre in the body. Notice I said "main" and not the "whole". The whole of the body is a sensing organ of the mind. Anyone involved with bioenergetics and other body oriented psychotherapies may agree with this.

It is not soo much that faith is irrational. For me faith is a feeling (like love). It is what your mind does with it that gives an irrational or rational outcome or a desirable or undersirable outcome.

[Chanahari]

I wonder though whether faith is something that we can actively use the brain for, the way we can use it for "rational" thinking (quotation marks indicate my awareness of the problematic nature of the term). To me it seems that the brain generates faith but that we can hardly will it, and therefore cannot use the brain for it.

A good question. For a counter-argument, I offer my own example - when I was seven years old, I "believed" in a cartoon figure named, excuse me, Shagshag (it was in a French-produced cartoon - because of the meaning of "shag", the figure was called "Tehrig" instead in the US and UK. ). I built my own inner world around it (it was a genderless machine, by the way); practically, it was my religion, although lacking in epistemology, but furnished with salvation theory and liturgy. In the same time, I was completely aware that this Shagshag is a product of imagination, it doesn't really exist - but I decided that I will think and live assuming that it does exist. I was able to believe it at will, in the same way as I was able to "unbelieve" some real, tangible things at will, so as to make place to the Shagshag-world in this physical world.

So I do think that faith is - even if it has a component that is independent of our will - modifiable by will, somewhat like breathing.

[Homer]

Has God given these people faith as well as a brain?

http://www.afa.org/magazine/1991/0191cargo.asp

Worshiping George V
In Papua New Guinea, cargo cults are numerous. The first to be discovered were the Baigona, reported by researchers in 1912, and the Vailala, first described by sociologists in 1919. Researchers found that cultists often were seized by mass hysteria that led to violent shaking fits and ecstatic trances. The Marching Rule movement is popular in the Solomon Islands. Another cult worships a faded portrait of King George V of England, declaring that it is the picture of Ihova, also known as God.
Some cult members believe they must imitate the foreigners. They even drill with wooden rifles and hold flag-raising ceremonies. They adopt Western dress and imitate Western behavior. They have built wharves, storehouses, airfields, "radio masts," and lookout towers in anticipation of the arrival of good fortune. Cult leaders make contact with the deities by using "wireless telephones," often nothing more than wooden posts or carved totem poles.
Cargo is expected to appear in local cemeteries, on altars, or in other places they consider holy and where the deity is expected to emerge. Cultists of Vanuatu have not lost faith in the long-absent John Frum; believers still await his return.
If someone tells you that he has seen natives of the South Pacific building airstrips and piers to prepare for the return of vast cargoes, don't pass it off as just another tall war story. There are still hundreds of cargo cultists out there, patiently awaiting the day when their lookouts will spot a great armada on the horizon and a string of giant aircraft lined up on final approach to their airstrips.

[Subhash]

I wonder though whether faith is something that we can actively use the brain for, the way we can use it for "rational" thinking (quotation marks indicate my awareness of the problematic nature of the term). To me it seems that the brain generates faith but that we can hardly will it, and therefore cannot use the brain for it.

A good question. For a counter-argument, I offer my own example - when I was seven years old, I "believed" in a cartoon figure named, excuse me, Shagshag (it was in a French-produced cartoon - because of the meaning of "shag", the figure was called "Tehrig" instead in the US and UK. ). I built my own inner world around it (it was a genderless machine, by the way); practically, it was my religion, although lacking in epistemology, but furnished with salvation theory and liturgy. In the same time, I was completely aware that this Shagshag is a product of imagination, it doesn't really exist - but I decided that I will think and live assuming that it does exist. I was able to believe it at will, in the same way as I was able to "unbelieve" some real, tangible things at will, so as to make place to the Shagshag-world in this physical world.

So I do think that faith is - even if it has a component that is independent of our will - modifiable by will, somewhat like breathing.

Funnily enough, one could take that story as an example of faith using the brain, if you know what i mean. After all is faith not just the realisation of something else's existence- if that extends outwith the reality which defines your own existence, you have a desirous relationship with the Other, which as a relationship extending selflessly outwith the safety of its own context, creates a nobler reality. Not that I'm saying that childrens fantasies should be carried into adult life, but i don't think the comparison is an insulting one.

[Subhash]

That sounds very muddled-but if i were to define what faith is i would opt for 'selfeless desire'

[extranjero]

I tend to agree that inner workings of faith in religious God and cartoon heroes are the same. After all, to be able to enjoy any fantasy story or movie we require what is called the suspension of disbelief. We can have faith only if we choose to have it. At least, this is my experience also. The difference between cartoon watching and religion is that in the former case we can know for sure that such things do not exist in reality and in the latter case we cannot prove nor disprove God's existence.

The whole idea about proving God's existence is ridiculous because it would destroy the foundation of faith by turning it into simple rational decision. But we can still choose to have faith in God to utilize one's natural inclination or emotions.

Love and relationships are what we create ourselves with our brains. Somehow it is all connected with the reality even if indirectly. For example, if we are identifying with some good guy in the movie, we might try to emulate his actions and that could make us better persons in the real life also. However, such acting has its limits and at some point it may be better to throw away the faith in all-goodness of our ideal. Ultimately it has to be done with every religious faith as well in spite of resentments. It is nothing to be feared because we can keep all the good things we have learned in the process.

But if we act on contrary and try to push our faith further than it is necessary it can lead to very negative results. The history is full of such examples of wrongly applied absolute faith. The first thing is to stop demonizing others who do not have the same faith that we have. I was disappointed when I read how much gaudiya vaishnavas with honest and dishonest means had tried to prove the divinity of Lord Caitanya. His Radha-Krishna rasa theory is great anyway but it is not science.

[Preyobrazhenya]

.....
Could you expand on this because I am not sure what you are saying?
Faith is a choice and not a part of the physical body - a brain is in our bodies whether we want it or not. 

..........

Its not too complicated Preyo.
You say God gave us a brain and you acknowledge we have a CHOICE about faith.
Who gave us choice?

Thanks for your reply. Yes, using the brain too requires choice. And the brain is wired for choice as well.

[angrezi]

Jonah stayed in the belly of the whale until he lit a cigarette, and Prahlad survived all kinds of dangerous things and murder attempts by faith. The Ukranian guy was obviously not really faithful but perhaps was pickeled in non-Ekadasi vodka.